To ask what you really think of apprenticeship s

[Soannoyingititchessobad]

My year 13 DS is looking at apprenticeships for his next step. We’ve seen some great ones and this route seems ideal for him. His girlfriend has already secured a great degree apprenticeship with an international company and will earn a good salary whilst getting this degree and experience.

DS’s girlfriend is very bright and is doing very academic A levels and is likely to do very well in them. She is really happy with the apprenticeship route and we are so proud of her.

This is my AIBU. Lots of my friends have said ‘I can’t believe she’s doing an apprenticeship. What a waste. She should be going to Uni because she’s so bright’. I’m really shocked. My family (siblings, husband, his family) have all been to Uni but see apprenticeships as an equally great career path. I just wanted to know what others think - is the general feeling really that apprenticeships are inferior to a degree and only for people who aren’t really academic?

I know people will say ‘do what’s right for your kid and ignore others’ thoughts’ but it just sparked an interest in me and wanted to understand what others think

I think they sound great.

They are different to old apprentaships, where they'd pay peanuts.

A degree one is a fantastic way to start a career debt free.

But obvs it depends on career planned. No good for a doctor, but great for an accountant etc.

My DS is very keen on degree apprenticeship too so following mainly. He works really hard and is currently predicted high marks in STEM subjects. I know most of them aren’t attached to Russell Group universities but I’d have thought the fact that you still leave with a degree on top of all that work experience is surely a good thing?

I don’t think they know what they are talking about. Her apprenticeship includes a degree. It will be a day release set up perhaps online but she will be awarded a degree, earn money and not be in massive debt for the rest of her life. Plus you’d like to think the company will keep her on afterwards so you’ll have a definite graduate job at the end. It’s what I’m hoping for my current yr11

I think apprenticeships are great for young people.

BUT as the owner of a small business who would like to offer apprenticeships, we just can't afford it. We looked at the costs and it just doesn't stack up versus employing someone already trained in that specific job who will be productive and profit making almost immediately. With everything else against us (all costs vastly increased and we are losing money) we just can't do it sadly and I'm sure other businesses are in the same position and there will be less apprentice positions available.

There are degrees at RH unis via apprenticeship. I’ve seen some at Queen Mary and Exeter.

Why wouldn't you want to get paid whilst studying for a degree if you can?
Also no debt when you've finished and you've hopefully had a chance to save and maybe get on the property ladder sooner.

Your friends are daft, you should point out that she is so bright a company is funding her university degree for her.

I have a child doing a traditional apprenticeship for a trade. He is earning buttons but at 21 will have a trade and no debt.
Another son has a double first from Cambridge and more debt than Honduras.

But both are happy.

My main concern with degree apprenticeships is that 18 year olds are making career choices which means that they have fewer options at 21. Maybe they will indeed love accountancy and all will be well. But my son went to Cambridge with one definite career in mind and is currently doing something utterly, entirely different. That change in emphasis and orientation was an important part of his degree studies.

Maybe they don't understand the "degree" part.

I find it impressive, my friend's DS got onto one - he was one of 3 with hundreds of applicants. It's much easier to get into uni.

It is a great example of people having strong views about things they actually know nothing about. Maybe that's what a degree the traditional route gives you, an inability to distinguish between fact and your own opinion 😉

A degree apprenticeship gives you a degree and work experience. Do they think the content of the degree is somehow inferior?

My gut feel would have probably put me in the snobby camp 20+ odd years ago when I was making this choice. However, one of DH’s v good friends was a very bright girl who ‘should have’ gone to uni, but chose apprenticeship routes. She’s leapt ahead financially with money behind her, and real world job experience (not to mention the company wanting to make good on their investment). With uni so expensive and routed to careers unclear, I really think apprenticeships are the way to go.

My son has done a trades apprenticeship. His company paid him well above the apprentice rate and treated him well. He is now fully qualified and fully employed. He earns well and enjoys his job.

he’s a clever boy who didn’t suit further pure academic study. Instead he excelled at both practical and theory work and was the only apprentice in his cohort who passed everything first time.

It depends on the company
Some of them literally use them as cheap free labour
And some of them invest time and energy and money and training them which they expect to be reciprocated.
It’s all about finding the right one
I worked with a young girl who did an apprenticeship with the council and in theory. It looks as if she has two years of solid employment in an administration role. The reality of it is she did about two hours work a day.
And learnt absolutely nothing

@SpanThatWorld hopefully an apprenticeship would result in some transferable skills and also a better idea of what various roles entail. Time spent eliminating possibilities isn't necessarily time wasted.

Even if you start again from scratch at 21 you're doing it debt free and with proven ability to work and study at the same time - I don't think you're necessarily any worse off than a graduate.

Professional qualifications will never be wasted every CEO I know started out as an accountant.

I've had two different careers, both of which I could have got to the same place having done an apprenticeship route in not much longer a timeframe.
I went to uni when fees were a lot less so only left with less than £9k of debt.
Given fees where they are now, long term outcomes being similar, I would certainly be more than happy and proud for my child now to go down an apprenticeship route if that's what they want.

Did she get a degree?

OP is talking about degree apprenticeships.

I think they're probably fantastic for certain careers. I think when they first brought them in as a concept open to things other than skilled trades, some were a bit dodgy.

Like you'd get a supermarket taking apprentices to do a role of shop worker and you'd just think, if you had vacancies for that why not just employ them normally. How much college training would you be needing to work in a supermarket?

So I was a bit sceptical about that side of it. But that was years ago. Idk about now but know they've evolved significantly.

Not everyone wants to be a CEO.

Three years slogging through accountancy exams and you decide you might want to be a Specch Therapist...

I'm not saying its an actively bad thing to do, but one of the positives of university is surely the opportunity to find out about other routes through life. My employment plans at 18 were nothing like my eventual career trajectory.

As people are expected ro stay employed for longer and longer, it seems strange to specialise earlier than we used to.

My DD did something similar, but in the 2000s. She's on the same wage as those who did the degree route, without the debt.
I know someone who is doing a engineering one, it isn't easier than the University route. There doesn't seem to be much flexibility and there is a lot less sick leave than you get at University. So it needs to be the right choice.

My son is doing an engineering apprenticeship. At 21, he will be fully qualified, with savings from what he has earned towards a house deposit or to travel if he wants that. There will be no student debt and three years of full time work history under his belt.

There is a lot of theory to learn, but if they are the kind to learn through doing, this kind of arrangement is ideal.

Downsides?

It is not an easy option academically. They have a weeks residential training every five weeks which is academically rigorous and they have to perform consistently or they risk being de-registered.

Some find the hours relentless in comparison to the school day. It is 40 hour working weeks with a week at college every five weeks. (They do accrue holiday like regular employees.)

They will be thrown in at the deep end into the world of adult full time work. Unlike full time university, most of the people around them will be older, mostly married with kids. They will need to be more proactive about carving out a social life for themselves, making new friends and meeting potential partners.

If it suits your young person, it’s a great opportunity. My son loves earning his own money and building a career at the same time. Once qualified, he is committed to his employer for a further two years. His pay rate once qualified will be as good or better than uni graduate salaries, although for others, how the pay rates compare are going to depend on what the qualification is.

Once fully qualified, my son plans to work abroad for a while. His qualification is a priority occupation for places like Australia.

Im 39. Out of my friendship group from University / College time. The two that did apprenticeships instead are earning far more than the ones who went to university. We have similar jobs. (I went to university)

But, while recruiting for an engineering position last year I did notice that applicants with apprenticeship backgrounds were more mature, polite and had a better understanding of the subject area. So they were preferred.

We had many university grads come to interviews in jeans and they simply didn't have enough soft skills. And their knowledge of the subject area was quite lacking! (Even from the good universities!)

Employing someone as a shop worker is just employing someone as a shop worker. Apprentices have to spend a day learning to a specification, either at work or at college and will come out with a qualification which will enable them to go onto further apprenticeships and maybe eventually a L4 ( degree level) management qualification. If you are just employed as a shop worker with few GCSEs chances are that's where you will stay. Yes some employers are crap and just employ them as cheap labour, and the apprentice ends up failing and disillusioned because they haven't been given the experience that allows them to complete the learning part of the apprenticeship, and these employers should be sanctioned. but places like Tesco, McDonald's etc have good progression routes through their apprenticeship programmes.
To answer the question, if someone has got onto a degree apprenticeship programme then they are part of an elite group. The only people 'wasting their time' are your ill informed friends with their useless opinions!

I need to add "scruffy jeans" rather than just "jeans" as I know they can look quite smart!

I meant, dirty, holey, baggy jeans 🤣