To think a lot of recent nutrition advice seems to overlook protein?

[AlpineAnja]

To be up front, I am not a fan of the super high protein trend, and can't be bothered with fads. But I do prefer to follow a balanced diet which doesn't exclude food groups, and of course that's just my own personal opinion! We all react differently to different foods.

But I have noticed recently, after reading/podcasts and watching some video's, that a good amount of experts are suggesting reducing meat for a host of different reasons, and I can understand them all. So there's a good bit of push for us to reduce meat and replace with plant sources (legumes, beans, etc), especially from the people who run the Zoe app. Many of the experts claim to only eat fish twice per week, poultry rarely, and red meat once per month or never.

Wondering what people think of that?

I know women who menstruate need to be careful about iron, which is much less readily available in plant based foods. And older people are supposed to be mindful of getting enough protein.

I am all for working to protect the environment, and have many concerns about the appalling way animals are treated, but apart from going organic (which isn't perfect either), do people think the nutrients in a whole foods plant based diet are enough for the above groups without supplementation? Obviously vegans and veggies are still thriving!

Maybe it's just the stuff I've come across recently, but even though there is a fierce trend for high protein in general, a lot of the health messaging seems to be going the other way, or at least urging us to reduce it.

I find the opposite! Emphasis is always on protein, especially if you are training. Which I am.

It's taking me awhile to work out that I can keep up my workouts without going so overboard on protein - or at least it feels overboard to me.

I know what you mean about the red meat - I will turn into a chicken or an egg at some point! But I've realised I don't need to keep forcing down the protein.

I really don't like poultry much, or red meat, so do struggle.

I agree that the messaging could be conflicting, so you have the zoe types almost ignoring it and the rest of the market obsessed with it!
We live in confusing times

I’ve been trying to track and my protein seems very low. It should be 45g for women. Though I’ve also seen around 1g per kg body weight since I’ve been paying attention too. I too do wonder about reducing meat but how to keep protein high. I’m relying on eggs and high protein bagels.

It doesn't help that a lot of people say that plant proteins are lesser. I don't know how to find an unbiased source to read up on it. NHS doesn't give specific tips on that. I have a fantasy of becoming pescatarian!

I find I need to eat quite a bit of protein to feel really well, and that protein from meat makes me feel better than other sources. I eat meat or fish every day (always free range or organic). That said, I also eat a lot of fibre and vegetables.

I don't eat as much protein as a lot of people say you "need" to these days, though - I once tried to track down any science for this claim that you need 2g per kilo of bodyweight and couldn't find anything. I think it's peddled by the makers of protein powder, because it's impossible to do from food alone (unless you eat upwards of ten eggs a day). PTs and the like repeat the claim until it becomes received wisdom, but no-one ever provides any evidence.

It's the same with hydration - no-one was fussing about dehydration until bottled water became ubiquitous. The human thirst mechanism works fine.

I think that’s to do with amino acid’s. Meat gives you all the essential ones for growth. Whereas I think most plant protein doesn’t.

And amounts in plant is less so you’ll require more. Fish is a good source of protein?

I think people obsess about protein, saying we should eat loads of it.

I find the complete opposite, everything is protein protein protein!

This reminds me of a fabulous video i saw recently, the chris van tulleken royal institution lecture.
Although not protein related ( his focus was ultra processed foods), a story about a historical infant/child who craved cod liver oil because he lacked vitamin D really struck me - the idea that we intuitively know what our body needs, yet there's too much noise and commercialism in the way. When the child had efficient levels he stopped wanting to consume it.

Wonderful lecture!

I do think there is so much advice now that it creates too much interference.

I also think we are all different. I am great with carbs but sluggish with fats. I do feel better with animal proteins though. I will have to look into pescatarian info, thank you!

That Christmas lectures series was excellent.

I'm the opposite with carbs and fat - carbs make me sluggish and bloated and I gain weight very easily with them. I eat loads of nuts, olive oil and cheese without ill-effects. Plenty of people can feel well and full of energy without eating meat, I'm not one of them.

Bloody love carbs though, more's the pity.

Love Dr Chris

I do think protein/and or fat makes you feel fuller than just carbs.

So spaghetti with a meaty/especially cream sauce makes me feel fuller than a basic marinara sauce, for example.

Some fat is definitely not to be avoided, it makes you feel full

I strongly doubt most people eat just carbs though, a balanced diet is best.

I am a pesto woman, god i love my pesto!

Well, you need to eat quite large quantities of vegetables, especially soybeans, lentils and peas, to get equivalent amounts of protein. Plus you need to supplement with vitamin B12.

do you mean a hypothetical 'you' here?
I'm an omnivore with a balanced diet. I think i get a lot of B12

My OP is about how recent advice, such as the Zoe app, seem to prioritise plant foods over animal sources. Even the BHF and NHS suggest reducing meat and animal foods.

promoting the idea of eating less meat is not the same as promoting the idea of eating less protein, so YABU.

Well I was confused by the info that says eat less meat, but also how other sources tell us plant protein is less efficient. I don't think the confusion is unreasonable, exactly.
Of course ideally we eat both, unless we are veggie etc.

Pulses are high in protein and excellent for your gut health too - all round goodies. I've been veggie for 30 years and never felt I lack protein or iron. I believe that vegans lack a single amino acid that they should supplement but I can't remember which one.
If you are meat free and pay attention to your diet (i.e. eat a rainbow plate and avoid processed food) you can really thrive. The Roman gladiators - superhumans of their day - were vegan.

I found out recently that tinned tuna is about the highest ratio of protein to volume of any food. So just a tiny tin of it mixed with whatever you like and added to a baked potato or bagel thin gives total protein for the day.
I think the second highest is chicken breast which is versatile: curry, casserole, soup, stir fry, wraps etc.

45g protein is very low. The NHS guidelines is a minimum amount you should eat to avoid protein deficiency, not for optimum health or muscle maintenance.

A small can of tuna according to google is 12-14 grams of protein so this isn't true at all. Also protein should be spread across 3 meals not banged all in one go as the body doesn't store it so if you eat it all in one meal you'll excrete much of it.

You only need to supplement if you're vegan, not vegetarian

All I ever seem to hear is people wanging on about protein this and cottage cheese that tbh.

As a lifelong vegetarian who hates both eggs and milk, I somehow seem to have survived to my 40s (and had healthy pregnancies and babies) without withering or being anaemic.

Quite a lot of the "nutrition advice" out there on social media is just overblown for the sake of a video. There's so much noise that I just tune it out. I CBA with tracking this or calculating that.

I certainly see the the upf groups often don't care about nutrition which I find fascinating. Cake for breakfast lunch and dinner is fine because it's made with real cream and butter and lashings of jam just like old ma in the 50s.

To be honest I would say there's an excessive focus on protein these days. Most people in the UK are not deficient in protein, and its perfectly possible to get enough protein from a vegetarian diet.

There are complete sources of protein such as tofo, quorn, obviously dairy products. But also pulses/legummes/grains contain plenty and as long as you eat a couple of sources in a day you will easily get all your amino acids

Your body is pretty good at getting what it needs from the food you eat tbh, there's no absolute perfect diet.