To not understand sourdough starters and how the world works?

[TeaSqueezingpos]

I just can’t wrap my head around the fact you can mix together a mixture of flour and tepid water, and leave it out in a lukewarm environment for up to 2 weeks, adding more flour/water and giving it a mix.. and we call it edible.

but if I left out of a mixture of anything else for 2 weeks it absolutely wouldn’t be edible would it 🤣 what makes it so different? Why is that bacteria safe but the bacteria that grows on my already baked bread.. or any other food/sauce ect not safe?! Like pancake batter.. you wouldn’t eat pancake batter that’s been left in the worktop for over a week?!

I just don’t understand and I don’t think any amount of explaining will convince my brain that it’s normal.

I want to try it, but I’m scared of killing my family with a horrendous bacterial disease in the process.

Well I thought I understood sourdough starters until I read your post and now I feel like you. Who was the first person who forgot their

but wine is also fermented grapes……
so do you drink wine?

And think about sauerkraut 😁

I'm really tempted but I'm worried its going to keep growing and growing.... like the blob movie from the 1970's!!!! 🤣🤣

I think a lot of food left out would be fine (plenty wouldn’t too, of course!) But there are a lot of organisms that are good for us, good for our guts. You could always start by buying a sourdough starter from a company, they’d be invested in not giving you a horrendous disease, so you might feel more confident than if you make it yourself?!

This is a great thread title! 🤣

Bread is one of the foods I try not to think about too much, like mushrooms and anything fermented. I have apple cider vinegar that contains a bit of 'mother' and I can't bring myself to use it. Next time I'll have to buy cider vinegar that's gone no-contact 😂

You do cook the sourdough for like an hour at a very high temperature so that probably helps! I wouldn't recommend eating it raw.

It works because the yeast you need for baking grows much faster than harmful bacteria and mould. You are obviously not leaving it to rot for 2 weeks. The whole point of discarding and feeding every day is to maintain the yeast colony and get rid of bacteria.

Each time you remove the discard, the remaining yeast gets fresh flour and water. They can multiply and strengthen their numbers. Then with each cycle, the yeast population becomes denser and more stable. Once the starter is fully matured, it becomes harder for harmful bacteria to multiply because of some specific chemistry. But only if it's still being discarded and fed regularly. If you just leave it on the countertop for a few days then it will go bad quickly.

I often wonder how many people have inadvertently poisoned themselves by refusing to discard starter because it feels wasteful, or by trying to bake too early with the "fake bloom" when you first make one. (This is the first few days when the harmful bacteria causes the mixture to rise but it smells utterly disgusting as you would expect).

I also wonder how many people don't even know the difference between yeast, bacteria, mould and lactic acid.

I was reading about traditional Crowdie. Oats & cold water, fermented over 3 days & use some of the 'oat milk' to start the next batch.

Wait til you hear about cheese 🤣

Well, the OP doesn't know about the difference between bacteria and yeast, at least! So you are right.

I cook my sourdough at 240 degrees for 40 mins, putting it into a preheated iron pot. I'd be very impressed if any murderous bacteria survived that.

I don't think I understand any of this post!
I didn't know you had to discard and feed every day. Do you mean you do that as opposed to leaving it on the countertop for a few days ie leaving it without discarding and feeding?
I didn't know about the 'fake bloom'.
I definitely don't know the difference between yeast, bacteria, mould and lactic acid.

My husband bakes sourdough most weeks and has been using the same starter for years, with no problems at all. My favourite one is the ciabatta. You have to keep the starter in the fridge and do the discard and feed process regularly.

Seems like someone forgot their Biology classes! I buy Sourdough though ,wouldnt make it .(BM so labour intensive) took me all morning to make Foccacia bread !

I don't understand either but imo the more pertinent question is why everyone's pretending to like sourdough. Horrible stuff! 😂🤮

Tim Spector says that people who make sourdough tend to have healthier gut biomes- not necessarily from eating the bread, as the lactobacillus culture has obviously been killed in the oven- but from getting it on their hands etc while baking.

I also don't discard, and have a very very easy no- knead sourdough recipe that works fine. I think the sourdough men hobbyists like to overcomplicate things to make it sound more impressive.

Hang on, what?! The vinegar has a bit of mother in it?! Whose mother? Which bit of her? How did it get there? Is Mother ok???

I don’t understand!!!!

The "fake bloom" is only relevant if you're trying to make your own starter from scratch. Somewhere during the first 2-5 days, your flour+water mixture will rise but it smells awful (like vomit or old socks). That's basically bacteria, mould etc. Somewhere in there, there's a tiny bit of yeast so you're trying to isolate that and encourage it to grow. So every day, you have to throw away 90% of the mixture which contains bacteria and germs, and then add fresh flour and water to the remaining part. It's easiest to tell by smell. A good starter when it's fully risen (with lots of visible bubbles inside) should smell clean and yeasty, like fresh bread. That's the best point to bake with. If it smells very unpleasant or sour (vinegar, wine, acetone, socks, farts) then it's obviously not good for baking. It can smell slightly sour like yoghurt which is still ok, but not ideal.

The whole point of discarding and feeding is to only keep a tiny bit of the yeast and replenish 90% of the starter with fresh ingredients that won't go bad within a day. I usually use a clean jar each time so you don't have old bits of starter mixing around. There are loads of guides online on how to feed a starter. That's the main reason sourdough starters don't go off because you are essentially replacing the entire mixture with fresh flour and water every 24 hours. If you leave a starter untouched at room temp for more than 2 days then it will definitely go bad. A starter can be stored in the fridge for much longer because the yeast essentially goes dormant and can't get displaced by bacteria as quickly. Though as a PP said, you can't bake with a refrigerated starter...you still have to take it out and revive the yeast inside by discarding and feeding at room temp.

One of the reasons it's healthier is because the yeast already breaks down certain carbohydrates in flour that are harder for the human digestive system to handle. So your own gut doesn't end up producing gas or inflammatory responses by trying to digest those carbs. Many people with gluten or carb intolerance can eat sourdough without issues. There is obviously still gluten inside, but a lot of other components are easier to digest.

I don't discard either! People seem to think this is necessary, no it's just to make room in your jar.

I'm also a 'easy' sourdough baker and feed my starter by eye. Every loaf has been perfect.

I didn't realise you don't have to discard, do you add to it but just not chuck half away?

I keep mine in the fridge and only discard when I'm making bread or once a week anyway but it still feels wasteful!

Many foods we eat have already gone through fermentations process or have some form of culture in it: yoghurt, wine, beer, cheese, bread of any description (made with yeast which is, essentially, what sourdough starter is anyway). More "exotic" options include kefir, kimchi, sauerkraut etc. Most of Eastern Europe will have eaten sauerkraut, fermented cucumbers, apples, and wild garlic and rye bread for most of their lives and seem perfectly fine.
And now I desperately want a fermented apple. Alas, the last time I came across one was at least 30 years ago at a food market in Moscow.

I actually always foumd it interesting fermenting is not common at all in UK to a point people think kefir is a modern fad.
It's great preservation method