What does pda profile look like when they are adults?

[primesuspected]

Dd has ADHD and autism with PDA (pathological demand avoidance)
I can’t possibly imagine what she’ll be like as an adult as she’s only 13 but I don’t know what her future looks like.
She will find a job excruciating, and the boredom intolerable.
She can be quite unpleasant when she’s criticised by authority, often retaliating with personal attacks.
I see a side to her that nobody else sees, a vulnerable girl, crippled with anxiety and unable to cope, exhausted by trying but unable to change because it’s a lifelong condition that she doesn’t choose to have but I don’t know how she will manage in the working world when workplaces are literally everything that triggers her PDA.

Hoping someone can come along and tell me of children who’ve strived at work despite their struggles with PDA.
I know working for herself would be the first suggestion but she struggles with processing information and working memory, along with attention and isn’t doing very well academically.

I see it as a movement from 'nurture' to 'nature' rather than a more kinder and balanced perspective overall. I agree however both profiles are quite similar, and that anxiety may come across as anger or oppositional behaviour.

Teen school years were pretty horrific but honestly now at 20 DD is doing brilliantly. She's at uni and I don't personally have to place any demands on her so our relationship has improved beyond measure. In her part time job DD does find it difficult with authority but she's proactive enough to manage herself fortunately and I've no doubt she will end up in a senior position telling people what to do eventually! She's had quite a lot of counselling and coaching however....Don't lose hope.

That's really interesting! I'd thought of paramedic or mortuary worker for DD but prison officer might suit also. She's unsqueamish and unshockable, energetic and very good with people.

I'm going to steer her away from anything requiring much admin.

I sometimes employ a very happy gardener with ADHD who by his own account was useless at school but likes the outdoors, weeding like a demon with his Airpods in. Ditto an osteopath who said he can only deal with humans in 15 minute blocks!

I don't know how helpful this response will be, but I am an adult with ADHD and PDA traits, but I would consider my PDA traits to be on the milder end of the spectrum, and they were/ are mitigated to a significant degree by people-pleasing tendencies I have developed as a trauma response (do not recommend, just my situation).

I have held down a series of good jobs (I am a lawyer) because the work I do gives me a lot of autonomy and I'm trusted to make my own decisions unless I actively seek input from others. Sometimes the mental burden of this can be significant (perfectionist control-freak) but it hasn't got me fired.

If your daughter isn't especially academic then something like law won't suit her but there are many jobs out there where she will be left to get on with things in her own way to a large degree. I hope she finds her path, and is happy.

Definitely don't underestimate that 'very good with people' element - it's one that I constantly refer to with my dh. Indeed, I always knew that my stepdaughter, who takes after her dad with her people skills, would be absolutely fine in life - despite a bit of a rough patch (academically mostly, but she also became a bit of a party girl). She also went back to studying as a mature student and is now a primary teacher. People management skills are massively advantageous in all walks of life.

My DD has tried counselling and could not engage with the therapist because she didn't know or trust them. She is much younger so perhaps it'll work in the future but I wonder if there's anything you can suggest from your/your DDs experience which might help?

The root is seen as anxiety and an attempt to gain some control over their lives by avoiding any demands. some of it can be linked to comprehension difficulties too.

@Hollowvoice sorry I didn't get notified you'd asked me something. For my DD it really was about finding the right person. She'd tried a couple of free sessions with counselling before she found the right fit for her, she's either immediately comfortable with someone or she's not (& never will be!). She didn't talk much about the sessions but from what I understood the counsellor was able to hold a mirror up to her behaviour and allow her to understand herself more. Her 6th form were amazing too, she would often just get up and walk out of a room if she was asked to do something but they offered her a mentor and small group counselling sessions with young people with similar issues and it really helped her feel less isolated and more understood. And finally, I think increasing maturity is key. I still see PDA behaviour at home during uni holidays but in the most part I can ignore it because I also have learnt how to manage her to avoid conflict.

@NoKnickerElastic thank you. I don't think we're at the stage where she'd even do trial sessions so it seems I will remain her counsellor for the foreseeable!
I think you're right about the understanding though, we had a difficult day this week which resulted in a long emotional chat about what I understand PDA to be and how/why it manifests. We actually made a bit of a breakthrough and the rest of the week she's been so much calmer.

@HollowvoiceI'm glad you've had a calmer week. When DD was at her most challenging when she was younger, my DH and I researched so much because we just couldn't work out what was going on. This was prediagnosis and we were completely ignorant to ADHD. We stumbled across 'love bombing ' and honestly it was a game changer. We showered her with so much attention, we'd take it in turns to give her undivided 1:1 activities that she chose. It honestly made such a difference. We still had difficult times, but I felt much more in control of how we were handling her and it somehow felt like light at the end of the tunnel.

This is an interesting and reassuring thread, thank you! I often wonder if DS aged 7 with ADHD, signs of ASD will remain at home with us.
Since his diagnosis, its crystal clear DH has the same. DH is successful in his field, works outside and has never ever taken a day off sick, he's the first one in and clearly thrived off the routine.

He stepped back from a big group of friends when we first became serious and it all makes sense now. He couldn't give energy to both friendships who were still very socially active and a relationship. He'd finish work at 2.30 and have a nap, now I see this as regulating himself. It was only when I took maternity leave id start to see what he was up to as id normally be at work until 6.

I am so glad you posted this thread and thank you to all that have responded.

My DS has just been suspended from school again, at least once per academic year so far…… I am so worried for his future and though he would just end up like his dad (my ex) bouncing from job to job getting fired from each one, can’t hold down a relationship or a home.

I am honestly tearing up here to read that so many go on to have happy settled and productive lives.

Resurrecting an oldish thread, but in the hope some of you might respond:

I have a DS, aged 9, AuDHD with PDA profile, who is currently homeschooled. He really needs to go back to school next year, for Year 6.

This is partly because he needs more time with other people, partly because I am burnt out, and partly because he won't get into a secondary school without evidence of functioning in a primary. We're not in the UK and there is no support on offer, no EHCPs or anything. He is homeschooled because the PDA was a total disaster when he was 5-6 and he was on the point of expulsion for disruptive behaviour. He's matured enough that school might now be possible, if it's quiet and structured enough.

What supports would you be trying to put in place (probably with zero help from the school) if you could support an AuDHD PDA 10 year old starting Year 6?

Would speech therapist sessions to help with social skills be worth it? Executive function training?

DS did a fair bit of early intervention therapy in preschool (most of which was a total waste of time, aimed at intellectually disabled autistic kids) and got to the point of refusing to engage with therapists because he recognised how much his time was being wasted.

My eldest is 27, seems to have a new job every 1-3 months as can’t get on with anyone / be told what to do. Still lives at home. He is doing a uni course in September to try and break this cycle.

He gets sacked from most of the jobs. He quit a couple. He has ASD, ADHD and some physical disabilities. I really don’t know what he is going to do.

OP I have a DD a similar age to yours, diagnosed about 7 years ago and hasn’t been in school since. Her whole world is ruled by anxiety. Even things she wants to do and is excited about cause her extreme anxiety due to internal demand and she often can’t do them as a result. PDA is fucking brutal and very hard to get your head around as a parent.
What I would say is that the natural process of growing older and understanding her mind, body and needs more, give her the chance to learn tools to manage. Also as an adult she’ll have much more autonomy around how she chooses to live day to day, which goes a long way to lowering demand.
It’s likely she’ll find her way to work through her special interest, as she’s absolutely brilliant in that environment and highly skilled already.
I know a few adults with PDA, mostly met through groups DD is in (her dad is probably one of them also). Again highly skilled in niche areas of work but a disaster in relationships or managing people if there are any expectations from them. Adult PDA’ers seem very prone to burn out too as the can cope for so long and then crash. Hopefully our young people will understand themselves better as adults and put strategies in place to avoid ( ha!) hitting the wall.

I’m her. She’s me. I became a copywriter who works remotely and grew my career from there. I don’t make fuck you money, but I make easily survivable amounts of money. The hardest issue will be her avoiding burnout. Force her to take breaks, even if it’s you coming round for tea once a week or scheduling a call once a week. PDA folks can put up with a lot if they have ONE completely stable thing. I learned to curb my sharp tongue at a corporate level (having to relearn it again and again after legit neurological damage; small brain bleed).

Calmed down completely about 18/19, I think a lot of the issues are hormones not actually their health condition. They sort of interact with their neurodiversity and go crazy somehow. At 18 my dc was given a choice apply for benefits which meant an in person interview for esa because they said she wasn’t fit for work or get a job, I literally said a or b, she applied online for jobs and got one in McDonald’s which was really good because it was regimented, set role, same daily. They really helped for a year, then went to university

Sadly, while this might be true, it’s made perimenopause an absolute goddamn nightmare for me with my PDA. My therapist is basically just calming the thing in this gif for an hour a week.

Sorry @WhichSchoolOrNoSchool Ive just spotted you resurrected an old thread, so to answer your question, I would focus on lowering demand as much as possible at home. I mean no expectations that aren’t absolutely critical for health and safety. If you really can’t get any input from school then you’ll have to rely on his ability to cope being on minimal anxiety at home to help him recover every day. Realistically though the school need to be on board. Can you send them some resources? The PDA society is good although a UK site. The PANDA guide is a good one to follow.

This is really interesting! Can you elaborate a bit? When you say "the more power and control she gets the more she wants and the less she respects us" do you mean the negative sort of control - like messing up a family day out because she won't go, even if it's something she might like? Or do you mean a more positive sort of control was making her miserable? Your post sounds positive but I can't quite work out the actions that are working and meaning she is able to step up.

My DD's friend is a long distance lorry driver. Another is a shunter on the buses, one takes cranes/moves equipment on building sites (such as the HS2). There are lots of solitary, but organised, jobs. My DD, who has LDs/Autism started in a fast food place, worked her way up to catering in the NHS. We were amazed because of her communication issues etc. She worked the race meetings. The cashless tills and simple ordering on the till screen, helps. Some of her high energy friends are domestics. They aren't on the pay scale most on MN would want for their children, but they've found a place for themselves and are building a life.
@WhichSchoolOrNoSchool have you posted on the SEN board?
@ChocolateApples for me it was giving her autonomy and not organising my/our lives around her. I'd treat her decision as I would in another adult and not assume she had come to that decision because of her disabilities and try to change her mind/or baby sit her.

What I have found useful about parenting a teen with PDA tendencies is remembering that as well as the official meaning of the acronym being Pathological Demand Avoidance, some people prefer to refer to it as Pathological Dependence on Autonomy - younger children have very little Autonomy and being oppositional and defiant is the natural result. Many adults have a lot of Autonomy - and as long as an individual can develop some valuable skills and can work without a micromanager superior pressing the wrong buttons, their need for Autonomy is satisfied and the tendency is less of an issue. The barrier is getting to the point of being able to achieve sufficiently valuable skills to be able to get such employments and that can take a bit longer if all the skill-learning opportunities are im contexts that aren't compatible with PDA but it is possible to get there in the end.