Is DS17s employer unreasonable to take the cost of his driving lessons out of his pay?

[Kyffin]

As above really.

DS17 had a job. His employer contributed £250 towards the cost of his driving lessons. DS has left the job due to being bullied by one manager and being bored due to the lack of work. He was stood about trying to look busy.

Big boss man has come back off holiday on DS's last day and told DS that he will take the £250 out of his wages.

There is nothing related to the contribution towards driving lessons in his contract.

Is he allowed to do this? I mean I guess he can do what he likes but can we seek legal advice? Is there a point?

Thanks for reading.

Normally there's something in writing that you have to stay in a job for x amount of time otherwise the 'benefit' (in this case driving lessons) has to be repaid. Employers normally word it as training or employee benefits rather than specifics. Check his contract but be aware that doing legal battle over £250 would probably cost more than that

What was the job? Personally I think I’d leave it, it sounds like the driving lesson money was in addition to the actual wages and when your ds resigned they understandably changed their mind about that bonus 🤷‍♀️

Anywhere I worked had a training agreement you would sign if the training gave you any sort of recognized certificate. You agreed to pay the cost back if you left within a certain time period, usually is a year to eighteen months

It's fairly normal for any employer contributions like that to be paid back if you leave within x amount of time.

Is he still going to have the driving lessons? Or has had them? If he is still going to be benefitting from them it sounds fair that it is deducted, especially as he chose to leave.

Morally, if not legally, your son should give the money back IMO.

Most of the time, you either have to stay for X amount of time, or pay the money back.

You can’t expect them to pay when they won’t be getting the benefit of it.

How long did he work there?

I work in payroll & HR. Unless there was a written agreement they cannot do this. It would be unlawful deduction of wages. They especially can’t do it if it would take him under National Minimum Wage levels.

And this needs to be put in writing in an agreement and the employee and employer signs it.

I would never have been able to ask payroll to deduct money for something like this (or training or qualifications) unless there was a written agreement in place.

There is something around minimum wage however, deductions can't being salary down below it. But I'm not sure if that counts in this sort of thing.

It does count. If it takes someone under NMW then it can’t be deducted at source.

Phone ACAS for free, accurate advice.

Im surprised people here think its morally ok to bully a teen put of work, then deduct his last wage.

I think, but am not certain, that if it puts him below minimum wage, they can't recover it? Maybe I am mistaken though.

They shouldn’t take and aren’t allowed of it takes him below NMW, but morally, as a parent, I’d expect him to pay it back.

Why do you think the ex employer should bear the cost of your child’s driving lessons?

I have a company which employs young people. We used to be SO generous with things like this but I have pretty much put a stop to it altogether now due to the entitled attitudes of kids who don’t want to actually work but think the world owes them everything on a plate.

I’ve also had kids claim ‘bullying.’ What they usually mean is being asked to do menial tasks suitable for an entry level employee with no skills and qualifications. They think it’s ‘mean’ and ‘unfair’ and ‘being picked on’ that their elders who have been with us years and have all the experience get the ‘better’ jobs.

Under ‘bullying’ see also ‘being asked to adhere to company clothing policies’ etc.

The tax treatment of the lessons depend on whether getting him driving and were necessary for work, but if not, and they were treated as a benefit in kind, I would make sure he doesn’t pay income tax on it if he’s repaying.

Union rep here. It’s unlawful deduction of wages. If he’s not in a union, ring ACAS. They can’t do it legally.

@Kyffin it simply hangs on what his contract of employment says. If the employer did this on an informal basis that was not mentioned in his contract then the employer cannot retrieve it.

So you need to check his contract of employment.

They could recover it by asking him to pay it back, potentially in instalments BUT ONLY if there was a prior agreement that he would pay it back if he left in a certain timeframe.

To make the deduction there needs to be a specific clause in the contract. Otherwise it amounts to an unlawful deduction from wages. Here is a link to the form that needs to be completed within 3 months of the deduction. It is free to submit the claim.

Your son has had the benefit of the driving lessons, why shouldn’t he pay for them if he’s not going to stick the job out?

As for bullying, young people where I work consider it “bullying” if they’re told off for being late, told they can’t vape or mess about on their phones whilst working, told they have to tie their hair back and wear correct uniform, or told they shouldn’t be filming tiktok videos in the workplace. Sadly the “gentle parenting” generation are not well prepared for working life.

There needs to be a specific (to the training) signed agreement in place. A blanket training deduction clause in a contract wouldnt suffice.

If no specific agreement its unlawful deduction of wages and likely taking him below NMW.

He should speak to ACAS who will probably advise he advises them of the error in writing in the first instance. It wouldnt cost him a penny either to take to a ET for unlawful deduction and/or report them to HMRC if he doesnt receive at least NMW.

We don't know enough about the "bullying" to be able to judge. Plenty of people claim they have been bullied when they have simply been asked to do something they don't want to do. He also left the job because he was "bored"

Of course the costs paid towards the lessons should be paid back, he is no longer in the job and didn't stay long. Honestly, the entitlement of some people is astonishing.

Check his contract and check with ACAS. I don't think they could just take the amount out of his wage, but they could well have written into his contract that he has to stay X amount of time after the completion of the lessons otherwise he will have to pay the money back. That's quite normal and fair when a workplace pays for a sizeable amount of training that will benefit the person for the rest of their lives.