If you have an ND child, what adjustments did the school make

[Littleprince123]

DD (8) is undiagnosed but is suspected of being ND (ASD, possibly ADHD). She is doing well at school in general but excels with a lovely nurturing teacher and underperforms with bad teachers.

In Y1 she had a teacher who used to shout, rip pages off the girls' workbooks, hit the desks with her first when she was getting frustrated. She's an older lady, very old school, close to retirement. DD struggled to get any work done and we didn't realise what was going on until I spoke to other parents (DD hasn't shared anything 😳). We knew she was underperforming but we didn't know the reason.

Y2 she had a wonderful teacher who nurtured her back to loving school and from the first term she excelled at maths. We were shocked at the difference. By the end of the year she was ahead of expectations in most subjects.

Now in Y3 we are seeing the same patterns as in Y1. She's got a teacher who, although she isn't as bad as the one in Y1, she is very similar. Very unpredictable, shouts when she gets frustrated etc. DD is back to underperfoming. She knows everything (as we assessed her with an independent teacher recently), she just can't get much work done as she says she is stressed because this teacher is very unpredictable.

I'm honestly so upset as we are paying so much money for this school. I also understand that she is particularly sensitive to teacher's behaviour as I suspect most other kids aren't so impacted (although speaking to other parents, they all seem pretty unhappy with this year's teacher for all sorts of reasons).

My question is, what can I do to support my DD. Can I speak to SENCO and tell them the truth about the way DD is feeling? What adjustments can they possibly make for her, aside from the fact that this teacher should not be shouting.

I have an autistic child and by year 4 she began to become unable to be in a mainstream class sadly - the unpredictability/ teachers getting cross etc were completely overwhelming for her.

So - I am not sure I can offer advice - I don't think ANY child would thrive with a shouty teacher so you can absolutely raise that issue

what I would caution though - is taking your childs word for it that it is only the teacher that she is struggling with. If she really is ND, then it may be other things but she isn't aware of it? ie. classmates chatting/ people doing things unexpectedly/the noise/ the busy day - all of it.

One thing I wish we had done earlier was had a full OT (occupational therapy) assessment done - and a full Education Psychologist report. They will look in detail at the barriers to a child learning or engaging in activities.

I would raise your concerns with the school generally. No teacher should be shouting, particularly in KS1/KS2.

Given it appears to be a private school I would consider other options including state.

Thank you so much, I'll look into having an assessment with an OT x

Of course you should raise this situation. Teachers shouldn’t be shouting at wee ones. Any child wouldn’t enjoy it - NT or not. But as you are paying for this you have options and you should start looking for a better school.

My daughter had ear defenders and time out of class and the nurture room and now has various passes in high school but she’s never had a teacher like you’re describing and has always been at the local state school. So I think it’s a problem accommodations can’t really fix.

We left a state school from end of Reception, she would not thrive in a class of 30+ kids and bad behaviour. I have spoken to parents from local schools who have quiet girls and they aren't happy with the behaviour in the class and teachers can be quite harsh too. 😕

I can only speak for the state sector. No idea about private school. I think much depends on the level of financial support they bring with them. Unfortunately, if you don’t have an EHCP many kids get bugger all. We had 1:3 TA support for about 60-70% of DS’s lessons all the way through primary, so were ‘fortunate’ . However, the flip side of that is that DS was so obviously very autistic and detectable from 12 months onward, that we had an EHCP in confirmed before reception - so we don’t feel very fortunate sometimes.

Bear in mind that a child will often say that a teacher is shouting when actually they are merely raising their voice - which can sometimes be necessary in a noisy environment.

Have you had a meeting with the teacher to discuss how your DD is struggling? That should be the first step.

Of course you should raise it.

Mine had ear defenders, was allowed to work outside the classroom, had a wobble cushion. Kids had fidget toys, were allowed more time for SATS, separate rooms and mine was allowed to have a card for asking for help.

Given that you are paying for private, I’d look t other schools as this one doesn’t seem to suit your dd. My dd is in year 1 at a state primary, and on the ASD and ADHD pathway. The school has been brilliant, there is a a lot of ND children and they implement lots of interventions and alter the structure for what’s best for the children. My DD gets taken for small group sessions so she can focus better on the things she needs to work on, extra movement breaks, extra reading sessions in quiet places where she can also move around, and they have things like headphones and fidgets on hand if she wants them. They’ve done the referrals for her and written an IEP which they update regularly. She’s ‘high functioning’, academic and quite social so the help is really appreciated to be able to reach her potential and also manage her behavior and stress outside of school. If your private school is not able to do things like this for your DC then change school because if a state school can manage this a private one should.

I suggested to DD that I speak to the teacher, she's not sure I should do that as she thinks it will upset the teacher more.

This is the reason she didn't tell us in Y1 either, until she developed school anxiety and other parents have also told me their girls were saying the teacher 'yells' a lot.

The teacher is an adult professional charged with educating your child. Of course you should talk to them first if there are issues. Your child is presenting one view of what's going on in the classroom, the teacher may have an entirely different view. You're also conflating what happened in Y1 (which sounds unacceptable) with what is happening now, but this is a different teacher.

Most of the children and young people I support are ND in some flavour or other as are my own children.

Accomodations have included:
Small group interventions to support learning
Standing desks (or working on a book fade/window sill or other surface)
Wobble cushions
Writing slopes
Pen grips
Fidget toys
Laminated checklists on bags of everything to be in the bag at the end of the session - on book bags (jumper, water bottle, reading book etc) and Pae bags (t-shirt, shorts, trainers etc)
Sensory circuits before sitting down/focus activities (whole class or small group)
Bands around chair legs (often declined by kids because they don't want to be seen as different)
Ways to communicate with staff without drawing attention to themselves. I've recently put in a card for a child to turn over when they know they weren't listening and now they have no clue what they are meant to do.

Teacher education is key
Clear visual timetables, timers, now and next boards
An understanding that rewards/consequences have to be relevant and immediate. Eg 10 mins maths, 10 mins Lego. Consistently applied.

What was a game changer for DS in y1 was an
Individual work station at the bench at the side of the classroom (where he could sit with his back to the class) with a laminated picture of all necessary equipment so he could check he had everything at the start of the session and reduced wandering around, getting distracted. The window was covered in sugar paper to reduce distractions. He had a choice of sitting there or at his group table seat and often moved between them during a lesson.

I rarely work in the private sector. I once asked a school to put in a block of fine motor support for a child. They asked who they should bill for the TA time. Clearly ensuring the best care and levelling the playing field for their students wasn't something you got as part of the fees.

Most children would struggle in a class where the teacher is ripping their work out and shouting at them. I would not be happy paying for a school where this is accepted. Have you spoken to the class teacher about what is happening and how it is affecting your dd?

Have you considered that your child might have trauma, rather than be ND? Given what you’ve said about her year 1 teacher, this seems like a possibility.

I see it a lot with the teenagers I work with- trauma after a traumatic event (in teens’ case normally covid. Often confounded by poor school experience) leads to them being diagnosed as ND, when actually their reactions to unpleasant events/people/situations are entirely neurotypical.

Thank you for your advice. I believe she is ND, there is ND in our extended family. She's got some communication issues and is very literal, a bit young for her age.

I haven't spoken but I am keen on doing that if DD wants me to. She seems to think her teacher will not take it very well.

Is the school doing a referral for diagnosis? You need the school on board and agreeing that she is potentially ND to get proper adjustments and interventions. Have you spoken to the SEND lead?

Why are you taking advice about how to proceed from an 8 year old?

It’s not really up to your daughter. If you need to speak to her teacher (and you do IMO) then you do so. She doesn’t really get a vote on something this important.

My son’s primary school had him on an Individual Education Plan from even before diagnosis so there was support in class such as he could sit at the back near a door, was allowed fidget toys etc. He had special arrangements for his 11+ exam - normal time but in a room with only 2 other kids rather than 150. His IEP meant that he got an ‘enhanced transition’ to secondary school - additional transition sessions on a 1:1 basis which really helped. He was eventually diagnosed with ASC and dyspraxia.

At secondary he has a Time Out card so can leave a lesson if he gets overwhelmed and also a laptop as his handwriting is illegible. He doesn’t have an EHCP just the local plan still. I think we e been lucky, both schools have recognise and accommodated his needs.

If you believe your child is ND, you will need to get a full Educational Assessment done in order to get an IEP. Have you made contact with your DD’s school about this?