Teachers and TAs!

[NeedYourOpinion]

Do you enjoy your job? Is it a massive mistake as a career move?

You don’t in secondary either if you are doing it right. Secondary classes are just as variable year to year as primary ones.

I started in the 80s. I absolutely believe you about your mum’s stress and tiredness but it has changed totally for the worse now. I’ve recently retired, but by the end I was dreaming about the halcyon days of the 80s.

@NeedYourOpinion Another thing I would say is make sure you are happy with the actual pay you will get. They do love to advertise as a ft equivalent, but of course no TA job has ft hours!!! It catches a lot of people out.

I just asked someone I know who is a teacher and she replied saying “haha no”. She does 8-5 with maybe 2 hours on the weekend, and the odd half an hour in the evening so not bad hours for 50k and a lot of holiday?

@NeedYourOpinion 50k? How long has she been teaching?
Most teachers I knew over my 21 year career worked more hours than that for less pay.
Also, teaching and TAing are very different jobs so not sure what you're asking?

Ok, if you think she’s right and everyone else is wrong, including all the teachers leaving the profession (which is a real problem) go for it 🤷‍♀️
If I just tell you the marking commitment for what I know - secondary English teacher (not suggesting this is higher than others, it’s just what I know). So I had a class in every year group (or equivalent) so that’s 7 classes. They would be any size from a handful at A level or with additional needs to 30+ for a higher set in other year groups. Let’s say on average I’d teach about 140 students a year. They would all do a substantial written piece each week plus smaller pieces which would need some attention. So each week, assuming a cursory 5 mins a book (that’s not possible by the way - a substantial piece at GCSE or A level would take 10-15 mins on its own, but to keep the hours conservative) is just over 11.5 hours per week. A more realistic view would be twice that. When doing GCSE or A level assessments, even higher. So that’s between 2 and 4 hours per weekday just on marking. Then there’s preparation, lesson planning, report writing, keeping record of grades, dealing with discipline and communicating with parents.

@BestBefore2000 I can ask her but I understand 32k-ish is the lowest level and then you work up to 52k-ish (she’s definitely on that - all the jobs I see for teaching say this salary range as well?) It’s the most experienced level isn’t it? I can imagine she’s very efficient as well, and the experience must help. Another friend just said she does 7.30 to 5 or 5.30 every day, then a little in the evenings and a couple of hours on the weekend at peak times during term. Again that sounds fair for the salary? I should imagine she’s on slightly lower as less experienced - I’d estimate 40k-ish?

Just thinking these hours don’t sound awful for the pay bearing in mind the holidays?? But I’m really interested in other opinions and experiences!

Oh and re TA/teaching - as I understand it, one often leads on to the other, especially as the former isn’t really making that much money? So I would be open to that transition and that’s why I’m interested in both.

I don’t think it’s a right/wrong thing - it’s different people and work loads. She’s primary, I actually don’t know any secondary teachers. That’s what her experience is but I think it can clearly vary.

@Ablondiebutagoody what do you do now? Sounds like you’re really enjoying it? Thanks.

One only leads to the other if you do teacher training. You have to be a qualified teacher to teach and earn the amounts you're talking about. (OK, not in some private schools, but in the majority).

@LadyOfLymeHouse yes of course! I have a degree which would help fast track the process.

You’re so right. You don’t notice it initially when a school is academized but slowly and surely, the toxicity creeps in .

‘Oh and re TA/teaching - as I understand it, one often leads on to the other, especially as the former isn’t really making that much money? So I would be open to that transition and that’s why I’m interested in both.’

Not as easy as you make it sound and not often - unless the TA is a graduate or already has QTS ( yes some are).

More often TA’s, even those qualified see what it is really like in school, the workload teachers have and remain a TA!

@ScenesImaginable yes I’m a graduate 😊

@ScenesImaginable and yes I can imagine that re your last point!! However financially, the latter appeals more!

@NeedYourOpinion In that case I'd start off as a TA and then see what it is teachers typcially do before deciding whether (or not) to pursue teacher training.
I personally don't regret leaving when I did but then at 45 I'm old!! 21 years in was more than enough for me!!

Do you seriously think working 7:30- 5 every day x5 is worth the salary 😂. Many take more work home too. So add more hours on. Maybe parents evenings, extra curricular stuff after school, residentials etc. I think you are seeing the holidays but everyone i know who works in a school is KNACKERED by the holidays. My sister is always ill on her leave.

You are forgetting how draining just being in a classroom with 30 kids on your own ( or maybe a 1:1 Ta) for a school day is just doing the teaching bit. Never-mind all the things other people have listed before and after.

Go be the TA in the job you have gotten. Be actually in a school, observe the staff, the kids, their behaviour, their learning, the parents attitudes towards staff, the support from SLT. Speak to the teachers honestly for their advice on becoming a teacher. It’s a perfect opportunity to see school life and see if it’s for you.

Yes, I love it. But I teach creative, practical subjects (all Performing Arts based). I also have an English class and that's far less enjoyable (still like it but it's a job and feels like hard work whereas Performing Arts just feels like I get to do what I love all day and get paid for it. It's a massive amount of hours physically on site because of all the extra clubs and performances. But then we get massively long holidays which I also love, of course!

Things I don't love - the paperwork and some pupils' behaviour. But I can't think of anything else I'd rather do (aside from being a professional performer but a crazy number of teachers are failed performers 😉)

I don't think I'd want to be a TA - they don't get paid enough and I think I'd get frustrated having to do what the teacher asked.

Mumsnet is much more negative about teaching than real life, I find. Maybe unhappy teachers are more likely to be online. Think how many schools there are - huge numbers of people are teachers and TAs. And, mainly, they aren't miserable people, they're largely happy enough in their jobs, appreciate the security and the holidays and have the same grumbles about workload that most adults do.

If the job appeals to you, you like children and you can manage on the low salary then it's at least worth giving it a go.

I'm probably instituionalised but I can't imagine doing anything that didn't involve coming to school every day and having a holiday every 7-8 weeks! It's really, really not all bad (though, as I said above, I teach really fun subjects than I enjoy doing myself out of school so the job/subject is literally my whole life).

DS is a HOD in a large outer London school. He's been teaching for 10 years and is pretty happy. He works very hard, particularly at certain times of the year. It's a pretty strict school and generally the behaviour is very good. The Head and SLT are generally very supportive which helps.
If you go ahead, choose your school carefully.

Teacher here of 18 years. Yes it's hard but no two days are the same, it's interesting, the holidays are good and the pay is decent after the first few years. It is definitely a vocation and you have to really want to do it, you can't go into it half hearted.

re hours - yes, definitely a lot for a teacher often including whole days at weekends but:
a) you're looking at TA which is different - unless the school is shit, you shouldn't have much if any work to do outside your school hours.
b) balance out the hours over a whole year instead of just term time and it's not too bad (eg - I work 50 - 80 hours a week in term time depending on how close to productions I am but only 2 - 10 (estimate, obvs!) hours a week in holiday time. So it would average out to a 'standard' full time job.)
c) there's work and work. (eg, I'll be at school till about 7pm tonight and that's by no means a late finish for me, it's often 9 or 10pm). But here I am on mumsnet achieving nothing 😂I'll get up and get on with actual work soon!

I have been a TA for over 20 years and have seen my job role change beyond recognition- but not the pay! It has got to the point that when children come up to me with things like teeth dropping out in the middle of class I do not have time to deal with them as so busy trying to do multiple interventions, deal with very challenging behaviour and support learning.

It does not help when the children with very challenging behaviour say 'I can do what I want', when talked to about their behaviour and then when SLT become involved, the child in question gets to do something fun in the office or in the classroom instead of the actual task, whilst other children watch and then ask why they are not allowed to do such a thing during lesson time. Then as a result their behaviour escalates.
I understand with certain children with ADHD or autism for example that being told off does not help matters but more children are being diagnosed by their parents and/or have gone down the private route and they are furious when their child (neurodiverse or not) is ever told to spend two minutes inside at break to finish their work.

I have had parents complain to me that their child is not allowed a reading reward despite the fact the reading reward is for reading at home and the parents do not read with their child. I love the kids I work with but it is harder than it has ever been.

I am in this position now, although I have only been a TA for 12 years. I am fed up of the decline in behaviour, the increase in Sen needs and the attitude of the parents. Like you I am now able to take my pension from my previous financial services job. All the TAs in my school are working exclusively with SEN children. I am the only one left that is supposedly classroom based (year 6) even I have 2 SEN children in my class with EHCPs which I am expected to support as well as the rest of the class. There are no plans to replace me. All the TAs that have left in the last 5 years have gone on to better paid roles outside the education sector and are happier for it.

Really? When does she do all the marking? What about break/before/after school duties? When does she do her planning?

If you believe her, do it. Sign up. Find out for yourself.