All this stuff about inflammation

[ThirteenRooms]

To be getting a bit sick of it?
I eat very healthy, although not perfect. I don't buy ultra processed stuff and am physically fit and healthy to my knowledge.

I'm in a few recipe communities online and this week mentioned my quick and easy homemade organic flatbreads. I use organic white flour, extra virgin olive oil, water and a pinch of salt.
I've been told more than once that the white flour will give me chronic low grade inflammation. I eat them several times per week with hummus, salad, med veggies, fish and often with fermented sides (not all together!).

From what I am told, it isn't crazy influencers spreading this info, it's accepted science. I did a bit of googling and studies were mixed, but I do think this is going over the top a bit, and my gut can handle an occasional white bloody carb.

I mean, how would I even know if the flatbread gave me chronic inflammation? I feel fine??? I know that inflammation exists, and I am aware that diet can contribute to it, but isn't this going a bit far?

I think overdoing protein is a fad.

Carbs are fine; its the ultra-processed and low nutrient ones that people associate with inflammation, not a high carb diet per se.

Just eat unprocessed food, everything in moderation, and stay offline.

Too many crazy obsessives on there

You can buy a test online for about £8 if you want to test your inflammation level. But if you have no joint pain, it's probably fine. Like a lot of things, it affects people differently. And sometimes mysteriously - I had no persistent joint pain til I was about 43 and then when I did I went to the doctor and was told it was inflammation but they couldn't explain why. I've been left to figure things out for myself, and I do find that having a lot of sugar / alcohol / simple carbs makes it worse. I miss the days of eating anything and always feeling fine. I was about to say "if that's you, keep eating a diet that you feel healthy on and don't worry". But is it possible my (mostly crap) diet had some sort of cumulative effect and led to the inflammation thing? I don't know enough about it to say.

I like all these faddy food trends you see because it puts into perspective how lucky I am to live a life with no food insecurity, where I can afford to feed and clothe my children and don’t worry about where my next meal is coming from. When worrying about eating too much of this, that or the other features as one of your life’s biggest concerns then you know your life is pretty blessed compared to so many people in the world. So don’t stress it, OP. Like everything in life, everything in moderation because in another ten years we’ll demonize a different food group anyway.

White flour is a refined carb that can spike your blood sugar, so yeah, it causes inflammation.

This is not really new news.

You mention other things like alcohol and processed foods. It's not an either or. It's just another thing that yes, causesinflammation.

I'm autoimmune so have to watch my diet to reduce inflammation. There's a lot of science behind anti-inflammatory conditions for autoimmune conditions, and sufferers can find relief using the AIP (Autoimmune Protocol). I'm 13 years into my MS diagnosis, and credit the AIP for why I'm still mostly symptom free, and don't need any medication. I can react pretty quickly and pretty strongly if I eat the wrong stuff though! Most people obviously don't have such extreme reactions, though I would assume it's still always a good idea to try to keep inflammation fairly low as it's linked to a huge number of conditions from heart disease to diabetes, to autism. It doesn't mean it causes them, but it can make them worse. But so long as you're a healthy weight, exercising enough, not overly stressed and eating a healthy diet with loads of veg and fibre, you're really not going to be damaging yourself by having homemade white flour flatbreads!

If you look at any online health and fitness influences you might feel convinced that you are going to die young from inflammation, and a lack of protein, lions mane mushrooms, collagen etc. The reality is that there are many people in their 90s today who have lived long and healthy lives without following fad diets, going to the gym, running ultra marathons etc. It is possible to be moderate and healthy. Walking, housework and gardening are good exercise. A varied, moderate diet without constant junk should be fine. Of course, these things may apply to some people but honestly if you feel normal and are reasonably fit then you probably are.

No it's not news, and I'm surprised how many people think its "faddy."

I thought most people knew supermarket white bread and donuts etc were not that healthy.

I’m with you OP, eating healthily most of the time but not perfect and I’m fine with it. I think any sort of obsession including healthy eating, is ironically bad for your health.

We’re also all different. I feel great eating pasta or a nice slice of bread as long as it comes with protein. My body however reacts very negatively to the lack of carbs and not having a bedtime snack - I get a cortisol spike and can’t sleep for a few days; intermittent fasting wrecked me.

80/20 rule works well for me.

I have never tested positive in blood tests for inflammatory markers. However, the information is quire clear in mris and, in some joints, by feeling them.

Have you been referred to a rheumotologist or was it just your GP? My GP had no idea what was causing my inflammation and only for I insisted on being referred to a rheumotologist, I wouldn't have a diagnosis which would have resulted in joint etc damage down the line

I have an inflammatory arthritis and what I eat makes a huge difference. If I overeat sugars and refined carbs my joints start to itch and swell. I'm not militant, but if I don't want to aggravate my inflammatory condition, then I need to avoid foods that make it worse.

I think some people are more likely to suffer from inflammation in the body than others. I don't think raising awareness is a bad thing.

At the end of the day what people put in their mouth is up to them. Food fashions come and go and if you like your own homemade flatbread and there are no ill effects, why wouldn't you carry on enjoying it?

Huh... She just said it wasn't arthritis / rheumatism as the joints weren't swollen / red / hot. I just take the Naproxen and try not to worry about it (or overdo it on the wrong foods). You've got me worried now. No, there was no referral.

Huh? No she didn't say tha, at least not in the post I replied to. She said the doctor couldn't explain the inflammation. Regardless, not all cases of inflammatory arthritis affect the joints, particularly at the early stages.

None of my joints were swollen either when I was initially diagnosed. The inflammatory arthritis I have affects ligaments, tendons and entheses as well as joints. The GP was telling me it couldn't be arthritis because of the lack of joint issues.

In that case the whole of the Middle East, Turkey, Greece and India must be absolutely riddled with inflammation. Flat breads, pita and naans are consumed every day by almost everyone, and made with white flour.

My sister was preaching about UPFs at a family event recently, when we were all trying to enjoy a bit of birthday cake. Her latest buzzword is inflammation… Her body is a temple. She managed to get some cake (and the rest…) into her gob, eventually! I eat well most of the time, but don’t talk about it.

Inflammation is a bit like toxins. It's easier to sell a magic cure when it's for something invisible with no symptoms. Look at the skincare industry's use of these terms along with words like "nourishing".

That will be offset by all the turmeric they are eating ... 😉

I think that's a bit unfair on people who actually do suffer.

The difference from things like the whole detox/skincare thing is that what was being "detoxed" was quite vague, and skin, well, gets old and that is something you choose to try to intervene with, or not.

People who get inflammation can tell you quite specifically what is wrong and it's not just some vague "oh well my skin looks better" or "don't my eyes look sparkly and bright?" when they do the right things for them. It actually eases pain.

I do agree people who probably don't suffer from it have jumped on the bandwagon ...

Also how is their flour processed?

I also think what we do with our food energy matters too.
I often go on hiking stays or spend weeks hiking fells.
During that time I use homemade white bread almost daily and feel very energetic and tip top. It doesn't contain additives, but no idea if this is what makes it work so well for me. My brain loves it.

I eat much less when inactive, though.

I was replying to what I thought was a question about what my doctor said to me. Maybe I do need to go back and insist on a referral.

Also forgot to add a study here that finds processed bread related carbs singled out as not contributing to all cause mortality, unlike the other upf's.
Interesting stuff.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(23)00190-4/fulltext

This isn't to defend processed bread products, as I prefer mine home made, but I don't think it is the worst in moderation. It is more nuanced, and we all feel differently with different foods.

Interesting thread.
I'm 60 and was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease last year and put on strong steroids which I hated and didn't suit me.
I started looking at my diet to reduce inflammation and by really going for it I reduced it dramatically, back to non inflammatory levels.

I dropped weight without trying.
Funny how things that seem very difficult become totally doable overnight, because you are in agony.

I had arthritis blow up in a digit on each hand which was very upsetting and shocking.
Following the diet with a desert spoon on top quality olive every day has me off all medication.
Its certainly worth it to me.

However OP, I certainly don't think your bit of shite flower in an already excellent diet will do you any harm.

My excellent GP said that if I aim for +80% anti inflammatory foods I would be doing really well, so I am.
I still want alcohol so that will be my bit of sugar vice.

These things never figured at all in my 40's and 50's, but if I want to keep fat off my liver, my cholesterol at its good level and my inflammation down, I will try and stick with it.
To be relatively pain free is great.

I agree with the poster above, stress is awful for inflammation.

I think there is a lot of research around fermentation times. These have dropped in modern processes, yet they are crucial in neutralising and breaking down proteins to make them easier for the body to handle.

This might also explain why other cultures sometimes seem better able to handle those products, especially cultures with more tendency toward traditional processes.

Sorry, I was talking about the fads and TikTok stuff. I didn't mean to suggest there are no real inflammatory conditions.