Manager I manage refusing to manage someone

[MumofCandR]

I line-manage a manager who has raised serious allegations—including refusal to follow instructions—about an employee (A). An investigation concluded with A receiving a written warning rather than dismissal. The manager disagrees with the outcome and emailed me and my manager, stating they don’t want to manage A and believe they will re-offend (they had previously talked to me about this, prior to the hearing) . I'm unhappy that:

1. they bypassed me by copying in my manager, and
2. I suspect my manager may suggest I take over managing A.

How would you approach this situation?

They didn't by pass you, they talked to you about it? What was your reaction?

Do you also not want to manage A?

It would be very odd for the manager who made serious allegations about a report to remain their manager.

1. *they bypassed me by copying in my manager, *

”bypassing” would be not directing the email to yourself .

Are you the DM re who this person manages? Or is your manager… they one copied in?

I mean really tall hierarchies are often a pain in the bum so it might be better that you manage A 🤣

Depends on the details here, but if the initial issues were interpersonal then the relationship may well have broken down between A and their manager, and so you would need to move A to another manager, irrespective of the investigation's outcome.

So why don't you want to manage this person? What support has been put in place for this person's manager for the eventuality that this person may fuck up again? How much blame will be placed on the manager for "not managing" someone they clearly think is unmanageable?

Why are you not supporting the manager and moving the employee elsewhere?

They didn't bypass you, they escalated the issue.

If there was a formal investigation and, I assume, HR was involved, then it's the end of it. They can't pick and choose who they manage. Your job is to support them though, e.g. by joining their 1-1.

There was a formal investigation and, HR was involved. My point is exactly that they can't pick and choose who they manage, the outcome is what it is and clearly not deemed sufficient for a formal dismissal. I have supported them AND was also a complainant in the process... The more serious allegations were from a third party neither myself nor their manager were directly involved or witness to those allegations. There are some very large assumptions being made here on support - they have been well supported through this by myself and HR.

The question is what would you do next - not a judgement of what has been done, there aren't enough facts for anyone in this thread to be able to know what should / shouldn't have happened other than the deliberately high level information provided.

Speak to your manager and tell them what you have said on this thread

Tell them what though - they're aware of the background. What would you want the outcome to be if you were in this situation.

That you do not wish to manage this person. And why.

Personally, I am surprised you remotely think it’s appropriate for a manager who made a serious allegation about a member of their team and disagrees with the outcome of the investigation should continue to manage this person, and I think your manager will be of the same view.

It wouldn't work me managing them due to how we work ( it wouldn't make sense in the structure).

I agree they can’t pick and choose, unless of course the issue was personal with that particular manager. I would find some “managing difficult people” training for them to undertake and tell the manager that you will be there to support them. Make sure they know they will play an important role in the future management of “the situation”, so it’s important they follow process.

The manager did not make a serious allegation.... Someone else made a serious allegation to them, I stated that up thread ( they were not part of, nor were they witness to the allegation). The allegation came to them and that was it.

Of course it's not appropriate for a manager who has made a serious allegation against someone they manage to continue to be their manager. I'm surprised the employee isn't also kicking up a stink about it - would you want to be managed by someone who had done that?!

You can't seriously expect this managerial relationship to continue so you need to work something out. They've probably gone over your head because they know you're being so passive about just letting it continue, when really something needs to be done.

Well there we go. Say that.

Oh sorry I missed this. Ignore my post then!

It would appear @MumofCandR does think that! Can’t quite believe it myself tbh

Then you need to manage the manager and tell them they need to continue managing A

But the manager in question believes the person who reported. And indeed evidence was found hence they’ve been given a written warning.

Thanks for this advise, it's along the lines of what I was thinking. The issue is that if ever anyone is subject to a disciplinary and their manager isn't happy with the outcome do you just then move the staff member? The manager isn't happy with some people in their team, I could see this setting a precedent...

If you read it correctly the manager didn’t make the allegations or complaints

Yes but the manager believed the allegations are true. How on earth can a productive relationship and management take place in this situation.

I think it will be passed over to HR, and the OP will end up managing the person in question

You have a desired outcome. Put together a couple of points why that outcome should be the optimum outcome and that is it. If you are told that you have to manage the person after that well according to your own rule then you just have to suck it up.

No it sure what your point is... I believe the evidence - in fact A admitted and didn't dispute the evidence. Nonetheless, the investigating manager and HR deemed it didn't meet the threshold for gross misconduct, case closed. That's why there is a process to be followed.