Ah you're a Catholic!

[Appleday11]

I moved to England to work last year. I'm Irish.

When I arrived at my workplace, one of my colleagues said "Ah you are Irish, this is a nice city, there is a Catholic church down the road that you can go to".

I think she was trying to be helpful but I thought it was quite bizarre. I'm not Catholic and I told her so.

Second time - I was out in the pub with a mixed group of people. Some of them I had never met before. One man said "ah you're Irish, you're a Catholic!" I told him Im not.

Third time- I was at another group. A woman said to me "you are Irish. Ah so you like such and such. And you are a Catholic". I told her I am not.

I found it strange as I have never really thought about religiom. Do some people here think that all Irish people are Catholics? My family were not religious at all and I was never brought up any religion

We were raised on Father Ted in the 90s though so that's probably my main window into Irish culture,

Oh Dear.... Father Ted was your window into Irish culture are you for real 😂

That is worrying all right @Boolabus 😅

Though you can tell something about a culture by how (and indeed if!) it satirises itself.

Well it satirised the catholic church, but there is a lot more to Irish culture than that! particularly in the 90s, and as a teen of the 90s I can definitely assure you of that

@Carla786 Is Irish hatred of the British really common though? I hope not.

It is common. My DS’s ex is Irish. She openly talked of how much she’d hated the British, but everyone she had met since she moved here was lovely (but she still hated the ones she hadn’t met).

I was once in a taxi in Dublin. The driver asked where we were from and I told him we were from Liverpool. He said “Ah, you’re grand then. You’re not English”.

Loads of them do absolutely detest us, and I do understand where that comes from but at the same time they need to recognise that it’s discrimination and grossly unfair. I’m not personally responsible for the actions of the British government 200 years ago, or that those atrocities aren’t taught in our schools. I support a united Ireland, if that is the wish of the majority of Irish people. I believe that Bloody Sunday was a crime and I don’t think I’m the only British person with those beliefs. Far from it.

It is bizarre yes. Where are people’s manners!

You just don’t ask about someone’s religion in polite society.

I’ve always liked to call it the Free State. Nice name for a country.

Loads of them do absolutely detest us

I wouldn’t say that’s at all true of the majority. Irish people don’t trust the British government and get irked by the fact that British people often don’t know their own history. It means politicians in particular can then say and do things that are pretty tone deaf!

There is still rivalry too, don’t want to be beaten by England in various sports etc. And some people (English, American etc) seem to think Ireland is quite a backward place which is annoying 😅

But that’s a long way from detesting English people at an individual level. Lots of English people live very happily in Ireland and are very welcome.

I’m honestly not convinced.

I don’t think people like this dislike individual English people (and let’s face it, it’s never aimed at Scotland or Wales, despite the fact they’re every bit as ‘culpable’ in their rule book as the average English person), but they seem to be living in huge offence that the English aren’t contrite enough, that we don’t self flagellate enough, that the Irish struggles don’t take up more room in our heads than they do.

Sadly while Ireland’s history has been defined by its relationship with England, the reverse isn’t true. Ireland is one aspect of our history (not on home soil as such), but we have such a diverse and complex history with many countries around the world that Ireland is just 1 part of it. And not one that most people have a personal connection with (unlike WW1/2 and events after that).

I know that’s hard to swallow, but this endless dragging up of things will get them absolutely nowhere. The relevant people have shown remorse, there have been official apologies and inquiries, what more can be done? Those things will never be enough anyway.

I don’t think the issue for Irish people is that English people aren’t contrite, though that does seem to be a common misunderstanding.

The issue is the lack of awareness. It’s especially relevant when it comes to politicians etc. The thing is the events of the past have shaped the country and some issues are still ongoing (eg the situation in Northern Ireland). The initial Brexit proposals, for example, showed complete disregard for Northern Ireland. It was as if the place and the problems hadn’t even occurred to the politicians involved!

A Secretary of State appointed to NI hadn’t even the most basic understanding of NI politics.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49085076

It all shows a lack of awareness and a lack of care in the present and that does a lot of damage.

As a kid in northern England in the 90s... Yes that is actually the only Irish media I remember ever being exposed to 🤦

Terry Wogan?

Why though? Why does it matter so much that English people have this elevated understanding of what is a fairly complex political situation in a land that is not their own, when we have no influence over any of it any more?

Well it matters when they’re appointed Northern Ireland’s secretary of state, doesn’t it?

Or if they’re in government making decisions about the UK as a whole.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK.
I really don’t understand why you think the UK government has no influence over it?

ETA Maybe you’ve just demonstrated what I’m talking about 🤷‍♀️

Is the population of Ireland highly educated on every area their government make decisions about? If so, that’s amazing.

I think you’re missing the point.

I think you are right about NI. A lot of people in the UK don't care about NI and think of it as a place of nationalistic trouble makers (on both sides).

That's really depressing and narrow-minded. I understand the anger about historical actions, and agree with you re Bloody Sunday.

But having that kind of attitude to existing British people is terrible. It would be like a black American or Caribbean person saying they automatically hated all modern Brits due to slavery. Or a Jewish person saying they automatically hated all modern Germans due to the Nazis (clearly worse). Yet these examples don't seem to happen in the same way...

Interesting re Poles : my grandfather was a Polish immigrant to London after the war, and he and my grandmother would attend the local Polish Catholic church with the kids, but then also the Irish one, as it was the nearest one handy where his wife & kids (who spoke no Polish) could understand the sermon. I suppose Poles may well have been drawn to emigrating to a strongly Catholic country.

It's a shame & I wish we had better education on the history generally, not only the Troubles either.
Otoh I think an extra factor where Ireland didn't help itself was the influence of the Church. Most Irish didn't have much direct agency over this ofc, but the revelations over Magdalene Laundries, and the extremely strict laws on divorce,, the Pill etc added to the impression it was a stern, overly harsh Catholic country.

It's a much smaller country than the UK, and there are very strong business, professional, and agricultural organisations whose finger is very much on the pulse of government policies and are even part of the process of formulating those policies. In addition, the biased press of the UK isn't a thing in Ireland - Irish press/ media tends to be more reliable / factual and not overtly identified with any specific political leaning. People by and large tend to be informed.

Sorry, just to check: do you mean NI, ROI or both?

Not long ago? There hasn't been a conflict between the countries for around a century.

There was a terrorist organisation attacking England and other Irish people to terrorise them into doing what they want. That could have an unfortunate negative bias, but at this point many barely know or care it happened.

The British would hate countless places if that was normal honestly.

Romans enslaved the entire country for hundreds of years. We don't hate Italians, and didn't care it had happened ever even at the time it ended. Many invasions from different countries. Vikings killing, raping, and pillaging for a long time and taking land. Germans bombed us with thousands of bombs daily for a long time, killed tens of thousand of civilians, and wanted to invade. Nobody cares, people treated Germans well and was almost entirely forgiven rapidly after ww2 even if it took slightly longer for thing to be perfect.

The Irish were a centre of slavery before Britain's role there, and would take slaves from the British mainland. Nobody cares or hates Irish for that.