Electric cars are NOT the future, are they?

[Isometimeswonder]

I am genuinely torn. I need want a new car but really don't want electric.
But so few smaller petrol cars are made now.
I haven't got a place to charge a car at home.
AIBU I should accept electric is the future.
AINBU I should get petrol. (Please recommend a small city car)

She’s talking about her street and her circumstances. I’ve also explained repeatedly why that isn’t the same as other terraces.

Not all terraced streets are residents only. Again. People know their own street better than you know it. You can only comment on your own.

@5MinuteArgument

it's going to be a future with more inequality and more social exclusion.

I can’t fault that statement. But inequality and social exclusion has been a huge problem forever, and was getting worse for decades before EVs appeared.

If you have the money, you can have a house with lots of solar panels, a big battery, a heat pump and run 2 EVs for most of the year with virtually no bills. If you do buy electricity you pay 5% VAT on a low rate. It was ever thus. If you have money you can fill a chest freezer and cupboards with cheap food too - living hand to mouth is always way more costly, so the poorest pay the most to eat.

People like us, renting a terrace house with no off street parking, have to pay for every kWh, at a higher rate, and add 20% VAT on top. We will soon be paying 3p/mile (so £300/year or something). Luckily my days of 1,000/week driving are a distant memory.

And yet we still love having an EV.

Why? Because even under those conditions we’re still paying 2/3 of what we did for petrol in our old Volvo estate, and it’s unbelievably better to drive. So much so that I would happily pay the same as petrol would to drive it.

It will take a bit longer for adequate charging to reach more places outside London for sure, and for secondhand EVs with a 300 mile real-world range to be more widely available (essentially the kinds of car that are being sold new now), but it will happen. I am as certain as that as I am of the sun rising tomorrow, because I know what is happening in other parts of the world that are ahead of us. We won’t put up with dirty and expensive fossil fuels for much longer than we absolutely have to.

And there we have it. You have more spaces than cars in your street, so it’s not an issue. In mine, I am lucky to park in the street at all if I get in late. And sometimes I have to go and leave the car in the local leisure centre car park and walk back because there are no spaces. It. Won’t. Work. On normal terraced streets in places that aren’t London and don’t have the same public transport options. There’s a massive irony in London having all the chargers and also the best public transport options - and then we have Londoners lecturing the rest of us and telling us we must be ‘paid shills’ for the fuel industry because we know our own situation won’t work. And it never will on many streets. No matter how many lamppost chargers are put in.
Plus the inherent unfairness in Thise in terraced houses paying more for their fuel than those already advantaged with driveways.

How am I supposed to be a car share person when I live alone and have different hobby commitments than anyone I know? Stop finding ‘solutions’ that make people’s lives more difficult or disproportionately affect some groups and look for actual solutions.

I live in London but if I were to get back into the one hobby I enjoy, I would still use my EV to get there due to their location - even with great public transport it would take longer to get there and back and in the winter I would not fancy having to wait for a bus! I say this as someone who still uses buses and trains a lot and in fact still walk 15mn to our nearest big supermarket unless I need to do a big shop I won’t manage to carry back.

I would say re: charging issues if all cars were EVs - by then there would be way more places to charge anyway - or indeed it would not be manageable. You would not be stuck with being able to charge only at home / on your street.

2/3rds? That’s the same saving as my self charging hybrid. There’s no benefit to me financially then?

I’m happy to buy an EV when the infrastructure around me improves. I could probably manage with one now but it would be a lot more inconvenient, especially as there’s no way of charging it at home (terrace, no on street chargers for miles in any direction). I’m not keen enough to be an earlier adopter and agitate for change in my area. But I’ll happily get one when there’s the ability to charge on the streets near home.

I checked on several of the ev charging point map sites just to see what there was around me, and it’s basically the one town centre car park, and charging points at the petrol stations. No on street options. I’m sure it’s all possible, but I will move over once there’s better infrastructure near me.

I would say re: charging issues if all cars were EVs - by then there would be way more places to charge anyway - or indeed it would not be manageable.

Quite right, it would not be manageable. And there won't be enough places to charge for all cars to be EVs for a very, very, long time.

As I said earlier, it took 80 years for cars to become standard for most households, and even now over 20% don't have access to a car or van.

@Cosyblankets

I'm in the north West

Thank you - that is one of the (many) places where access to public charging within 5 minutes walk of home is at the lowest at present.

And it’s clear that without easy access to such charging facilities people will find it much harder to shift, for sure. But it doesn’t make it impossible or condemn those places to remain as EV deserts.

It’s also clear that we have to transition away from fossil fuels or many places will simply cease to exist, never mind not have adequate EV charging. The anticipated sea level rise from global warming will wipe out most coastal cities in due course, and governments have a duty of care to their citizens to prevent that risk, however much Trump delays action. We have already baked in a 1m sea level rise, so mayhem is coming whatever.

And finally, the Germans and French are rapidly learning from the Chinese how to build better EVs, so the cars themselves will simply dominate the future as smartphones have taken over from dumb ones. Fossil fuelled cars will ultimately become museum pieces (they certainly drive like them), although I doubt I will live long enough to see that happen.

Me and DH both have Evs a.bigger one which is our family car and a little one (byd dolphin) we have been abroad camping in ours and do a 6 hour drive to see family several times a year. As long as you plan it long journeys are fine as someone further up as said we are ready for a coffee and loo stop by the time we need to charge anyway..fast chargers on the motorway can now "fill up" in less than half an hour. We stop the same amount of time as we did in the petrol cars.. I think a lot of the anti anti car stuff comes from people who haven't tried them which makes me a bit frustrated. We do have an at home charger and I can see that it would be a pain if not however public charging for a getting better all the time and actually is loads better I think than in other European countries we have taken our EV too (surprisingly Germany wasn't great when we went!)

@cardibach

That’s the same saving as my self charging hybrid. There’s no benefit to me financially then?

In pure fuel cost terms no, there isn’t. You only get dramatic fuel savings if you can charge at home. I’m definitely not one to say people should make the shift for just that reason. By all means get a hybrid if that’s your sole concern (I refuse to call them “self-charging” - that’s a Toyota marketing con - the car’s tiny battery is ultimately charged from the energy in the petrol you still have to put in it. It “self-charges” like it “self-drives”, which means it doesn’t). There is much lower maintenance requirements and consequently higher reliability, but those are just dull economics things.

I have been a “petrol head” all my life, and I love driving. I spent a large part of my life driving across the North Wales mountain passes to work and it’s never ceased to be a thrill to me to drive down from the road peak near Snowdon down the Llanberis pass and past Llyn Padarn,

And that road was one of those that sold me on the Polestar 2, and specifically its single pedal driving capability. You don’t know what an EV can do until you have had the joy of driving one. The smoothness, the effortless power, the preheating and cooling, the battery regen instead of most braking and the way they eat the miles up on long journeys.

So the relative cost of fuel is of no particular concern to me, it’s just a nice bonus that we can still save a bit of money in comparison to our lovely old Volvo petrol car. We own an EV because they are simply better cars.

I'm surprised there aren't EV chargers in the local leisure centre car park. I'm sure there will be soon, sounds like the kind of place where they're popping up.

I assume PP was referring to car share clubs- an ideal solution I'd assume for someone in your circumstances.

Stop tying yourself into knots to defend the fossil fuel industry for free- they have plenty of people they're paying to do that already.

I have a self charging hybrid. I’ve said so several times - including in the post you are responding to. Like I said. You aren’t paying attention because you are sure you are right despite having different circumstances than most of us.
It isn’t a Toyota though so I’m not sure what your battery point means. It does self charge - on braking or deceleration and as a result uses about 2/3rds the petrol I used to use doing the same mileage. It’s using less petrol because of the battery which I don’t have to plug in arguing anything else is semantics.
As I’ve said repeatedly it makes no difference how good EVs are, it just isn’t practical for me to have one.

No, the ideal situation is having my own car available to me to do the things I do on my own every single day of the year. Excellent public transport might also reduce my need, but I can’t get to any of my hobbies that way currently.
Im not defending the fossil fuel industry, don’t be silly. I’m pointing out that coming up with bogus solutions that are impossible or very inconvenient isn’t going to move anything on. I have a self charging hybrid which is the best I can do currently. If you want me (or people in my situation) to do more it has to be something practical, not a pie in the sky fake solution.

I’m not really meant to park there. If there were, they’d be for clients anyway. And it’s an inconvenient distance from my home which is why it’s a parking solution I only use when there’s no other choice - plus I wonder whether my car is insured parked there overnight anyway as I’m not using the facilities so don’t really have a right to be there.

( apologies cardibach my post wasn’t meant to tag onto yours, can’t delete that now )

OPs thread is about whether EVs are the future
and whether we/she should be expected to accept that.

Presumably in the future infrastructure will be better than it is now. We are seeing an increasing number of chargers popping up all over the place
and charging will hopefully be quicker. Again that time has reduced with increased tech already

So with everything in place is it acceptable to have to use an electric car ?

I see this as a matter of it’s fine to drive petrol or diesel but it’ll cost you more in the future ( whenever that is) for that choice
If you want to drive more cheaply and environmentally then it will also be cheaper to do so with an EV

Its a choice we can all make
Whether we will have that choice in the future only time will tell.

At the "user" level I'm all for EVs, and I think the transition to all electric new cars is absolutely inevitable. What really concerns me is that there is very little discussion or public information about the amount of energy that will have to be distributed to all the (tens of) thousands of high speed charge points and home chargers to service them. This will mean replacement and enhancement of the existing infrastructure beyond what anyone is imagining. Wind farms, pylons literally everywhere, all streets being rewired. Yes, I'm painting a bleak picture, but peole need to start to realise the transition to EVs is not going to be invisible. And as the government starts to lose income from petrol taxation it will inevitably shift taxation to EV charging. It will not remain cheap, even for home charging.

Yet you are defending the fossil fuel industry, aren't you?

All this "Oh oh, I do not believe that an EV would ever be suitable in my very very specific circumstances because my hobbies" ....oh come on 🙄. It's not all about you love. Was the title of this thread "I think cardibach should switch to an EV even though it's personally inconvenient to her?? " It wasn't, was it!

God, I'm challenging the question asked by the OP- "AIBU to think that EVs are not the future?" because it's clear that they are (at least unless/until we get public transport properly sorted), even though the provision of a decent infrastructure has been greatly held up by a hostile media environment and the pointless carping of people like you.

I could easily list the reasons why I don't have an EV right now! That's right- I drive a diesel! I don't have a drive either! But I am very much looking forward to the day when the current diesel van dies and I buy the same model- but electric- at which point I hope that my HA will have installed a charger in my parking space. If not- well, I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. They've built some brand new social housing behind us with chargers in every parking space, so I'm wondering if I might be able to negotiate with one of my neighbours to use theirs at a modest profit to them 🤔

I believe Labour are considering a tax / mile on EVs to pick up on that tax loss.
We should hear on 16th March after the consultation period ends

No it won't.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean car sharing with people you know. I mean like a car club set up like this one https://www.co-wheels.org.uk/how-it-works

Funny that you see it as being unfair on you
How about the fact that I have paid for solar panels and a battery and my taxes will pay for you to have access to on street chargers?
I dont mind as its for "the greater good" but its funny that you've flipped the view...

My main objection is there is literally no way I’ll be able to chatge at home, but go on about the hobbies which were actually about why I need transportation of any kind. I have a self charging hybrid because I’d like it to be possible to drive an EV. But it isnt. But yeah, I’m all for fossil fuels. Try reading a bit. And thinking about what other people say.