To wonder why so many struggle to believe the 'political elite' were taking part in paedophilia and sex trafficking given what we know of the Catholic churches past with women and children?

[Barnbrack]

There seems to be this utter disbelief that women were trafficked, babies murdered, children systematically sexually abused by rich and powerful men. When the parallels with the worldwide Catholic Church child abuse scandal, the Magdalene laundries, the cover ups and moving around fo known active paedophiles by men sympathetic to other powerful men with a total disregard for women and children is so glaringly obvious.

Do people think religion is why these men managed to run such powerful and abusive institutions for so long? Power and money. Same overpriveleged buffoons.

Where men are obsessed with wealth and power women and children always suffer.

In a world where the church child sex abuse scandal existed I see no reason not to believe the Epstein files show the same sinister men in a different institution

What are you waffling about? Who doesn't believe people have been trafficked? Who doesn't believe children have been abused? I don't think anyone believes Epstein and Maxwell are innocent do they?

And what has all this got to do with the Catholic church?

Who is disbelieving it, name them?

I don’t sense much disbelief, if I’m honest. The total opposite in fact.

I honestly don't think anyone struggles to believe that wealthy, privileged men abuse women and children. It has always been that way and is disgusting and repellent.

What I struggle with im Epstein is the supernatural / devil worshiping / mystical evil narrative that i see floating around. To me thats an easy way out. Much easier to believe in grand supernatural evil than in the very real evil of terrible ordinary men who have too much power and too much money. And the uncomfortable truth is that these men are members of our society - they are fathers, brothers, sons and capable of absolute atrocities on a weekend and back to work on a Monday.

I find it interesting that the hero of women's rights JKR, has so little so say about the Epstein files.
It's almost like she only gives a selective shit about some women...

Don't be stupid, what a random thing to say

I find it easy to believe that men abuse women and children, wealthy or poor .

I think actually again there are parallels with religion. Men looking for a supernatural belief to support their perversion. Not that I think Epstein etc ARE supernatural beings but I don't think it's a leap to the idea that they considered themselves superior and supernatural in some way. Is it a wild stretch from the 'alpha male' stuff going around just now? Is that just this generations version of the same type of men.

Just to point out the Anglican Church, the Methodist Church, all the other religions, then Scouts, the Boys Brigade, the fostering industry, the police, boarding schools, social workers, sports coaches, surrogacy firms, all took and still take part in it. (If you think they don’t, you are delightfully naive).

Germaine Greer is the only one to believe “never forget how much men hate us”. All else comes second.

Dr Suzanne Vierling has studied the many, myriad ways men have of making money from the bodies of women. Eyeopening and distressing.

I definitely dont have disbelief about trafficking women and girls and sexual abuse..

I am a bit more 'is this actually real' when there is talk of eating babies and actual devil worship.

I heard this on a podcast the other day and it really made me think.

The guy was saying that one reason some people struggle to believe that rich and powerful men have abused women and girls is because some people still kind of believe that wealth and power mean someone is “better” than the rest of us.

Like, to get rich and powerful, you must be smarter, more disciplined, more morally solid… just an all-round superior human being.

Logically, we know that’s not true. Money and power don’t equal good character. But I think some people hold this belief somewhere in the back of their minds.

So when accusations come out, the reaction is almost: “He can’t have done that. He’s too successful.”
As if success is proof of being a decent person.
It’s not.

Correct, always seems to be forgotten!

I think you’re right, Op, most people can’t imagine the utter depravity that the powerful are capable of so we tend to minimise it to be able to cope.

The exploitation of young girls (and children) especially, in the modern centuries, has been going on since the 1920s, in terms of rich men with power through their companies and wealth.

I think this is true.

How rude. She isn’t waffling at all, she has started an intelligent thread, why do you think you can be so rude to people?

I don't think anyone is in disbelief. The exact opposite, it's practically been normalised, there's been so many scandals in the last couple of decades.

I grew up a Catholic in Ireland hence my specific use of the Catholic Church but I absolutely agree

I don't think anyone disbelieves it just because they are rich, powerful or in politics. Maybe more people would've been shocked a decade or so ago, but our eyes have been truly opened to men's insatiable corruption and depravity these days.

What really fucks me off is the people still fiercely defending the royal family and, despite evidence to the absolute contrary, saying they're glad the dear old queen didn't know about it and how terrible it is for Charles, William, Kate etc. Please, get real.

Yes, I dream of Gene Hunt.

(Sorry, OP).