AIBU to say that men don’t make women happy long term?

[MenoMenace]

I’m having a quiet work month (self employed) so have managed to catch up with various female friends over the last few weeks. Bar one of them, ALL the others just talked about how shit their men are.

The common thread is that their man isn’t pulling his weight at home. Firstly on the housework side of things, and secondly with childcare. All these amazing women are starting to question what their man actually brings to the table. In some cases, not even a financial benefit.

I’m in a relationship, we don’t live together and are both child free. I LOVE living alone (with my dog). I’ve previously been in a similar situation and found it completely impossible to feel any sort of sexual passion for men who can’t even pick their dirty clothes up off the floor. I’m no Marie Kondo, but my home is my sanctuary.

Some of the happiest women I know are post menopausal women who have managed to shed a shitty OH. I’ve observed how brilliantly they rally round, creating supportive communities.

I know it’s not all men; my own DP was a stay at home dad. He hoovered and shopped etc. One of my EX OHs was a brilliant cook and very house proud.

Interested to see what the general consensus is, or are all my female friends just with complete douchebags?

@MaddestGranny

Many men are wondering wtf has happened and yearn for their old mastery over women.
A Room Of Your Own. A Bank Account Of Your Own. A Pension Of Your Own.

Indeed. And these things obviate the need for men. Which you might think is a good thing for men: less expectation that they will have to pay for everything, more freedom. But its hard wired into many of them to feel that the quid pro quo is that they pay for things and in return get a domestic appliance.

Depressing that so few of them seem to be able to see past this.

@Thepeopleversuswork well the additional problem now is that… most women are working, and many earning equal to or more than their partner.

But there is still for some reason an expectation they have that ‘domestic appliance’, for paying half the bills.

Yes exactly. Its the last frontier of feminism.

They are OK (most of them) being out-earned but they deeply resent and resist the idea that they might balance this out by picking up some of the domestic slack.

Its thoroughly depressing.

I will say though, despite MN being absolutely packed with women whose partners share the domestic and childcare load equitably, in real life that does not appear to be the norm. And still a lot of men who think their wallet should be their only contribution to domestic work.

I actually blame maternity leave for this.

Its resets every relationship post children into this ‘woman at home, expert on the child, manages all of child’s needs, appointments, things - plus responsible
for all the washing, cooking, cleaning’… and when you go back to work, it’s very hard to get back to things being equal.

There is also a standards thing. I recently caught a friends DH giving their child ice cold shepherds pie, straight from the fridge. He said he never bothered heating the kids food, as they didn’t seem bothered either way. It’s a very particular type of weaponised incompetence.

Women should marry better men. Mine brings untold happiness, is kind, considerate and simply does stuff quietly which makes my life better.

I'm so happy living in my home on my own I absolutely love my peaceful calm do what I want life.

YANBU. Agree with your friends… and mine. It’s so rare to find a man who pulls his weight, also emotionally and mentally, who isn’t either hapless or abusive. Most divorced men end up that way for a really good reason.

I have been in relationships when younger with decent men, but as I’ve got older the pool dried up to narcs, abusers and avoidants. All quite hard to spot initially I might add!

Still have an open mind and trust but prepared to close the chapter on partnership at this late stage - sadly as I love being in love!

This is very much an UK relationship problem and from what I see online the same in the USA too. I live in Spain know very few relationships under 50 where the men are behaving like that. It’s definitely not the norm here. Many countries in Europe, especially the Scandinavian counties, are similar to here too.

I've seen quite a few relationships go wrong (my family is full of divorces) and I would say that the main difference between those relationships and mine is that in most of them one of the parties was an appeaser/conflict avoidant. And the other party became more and more extreme in not sitting up and taking notice of what was going wrong, until the appeasing party blew up completely and the by now completely used to having their own way party felt deeply betrayed and blindsided.

Dh and I had some epic rows early on in our relationship. We gradually learnt to communicate what was and wasn't working for each of us in a less explosive way, but we still talk a lot, tell each other what we would like and what we are willing to compromise on and find a compromise that works for both of us. It's not always perfect for both of us (sometimes not for either of us) but it takes into consideration both our needs (and now dcs' needs as well) and is the best we can do at each time. And we keep reviewing it to see if we can do better.

I don’t disagree that women should raise their standards and that’s great for you that you have found a decent one but surely you realise that’s not a strategy it’s luck.

Finding a great man who actually sees you as an equal, loves you and supports you is the icing on the cake when you’ve made yourself happy and made something of yourself.

It can’t be an end in itself. Not least because underwhelming men tend not to advertise themselves as such. Simply saying “find better men” is like saying “find more money”. It isn’t that easy.

Put it this way. I jumped for joy when DD came out. Yes I know abusive relationship s can still occur but it's a weight off my shoulders that I don't have to warn her about shitty men while our whole patriarchal society contradicts me.

@Mysticguru is absolutely correct.

As someone who values my happiness enough to not make it a man's responsibility, I wouldn't hesitate to dump a manchild who cannot pick up after himself or one who is an absolute pig. Anyone still leaving their dishes and stinky towels on the floor should be on their own or with someone who doesn't mind living with a disgusting human.

I had a similar conversation with some friends recently. One is going through a nasty divorce. My dh is great and I appreciate him all the more when others complain about their partners, but in the main they are decent men. The problem is that being decent just isn’t enough. We all have teens now. Some of the husbands are heading into retirement and there is ill health to contend with. It feels like we’re all dealing with something challenging. We need each other to be able to let it all out.

I’ve come to the conclusion that if anything happened to dh, I just wouldn’t bother again. I have been so happy and loved, I have amazing kids, and I just couldn’t be bothered to train another man now. If I was in my 30s and wanted kids I can see why women go for it. Now, in my late 40s, I’m just not bothered.

My bil, aged 43, recently separated and finally sorting the divorce, already has a new girlfriend who is 32. I want to shake her, and him. DH couldn’t understand why I was critical of his brother moving on already. I think this is the difference between women and men. I know I would be just fine by myself.

I don't understand completely saying one gender is rubbish. Been with my DH 20 years and he's fab, did his share of night feeds, everything split down the middle. They're just with a wrong partner, move on and find a better one I guess

Oh, that we were all blessed with your superior selection skills! You sound a teeny bit smug. Let's just hope that his particular Achilles heel isn't a nubile little blonde when you're going through menopause......

Yeah there’s nothing worse than these “I won the man lottery” posts.

Well done you etc but there’s no bar code you can scan when you meet a man that tells you he is going to cheat/become abusive/develop a drink problem/neglect his family. Lots of women go into marriage sure they have done the due diligence and still end up being betrayed or let down.

You struck gold so have the intelligence, dignity and compassion to keep the sanctimoniousness to yourself.

Im watching a marriage disintegrate and are friends with both partners.

the advice I give the female partner is heavily outweighed by her hobby circle of friends (who for the record are single and did not know them nor were at the wedding) whereas I’m married 27 years this year and together for 31.

my take home opinion from watching this is “people” will hear what they want to hear and align or make themselves more available to that group. For instance my circle who I communicate with more frequently don’t slag off their partners. They might on occasion talk privately about something that’s grinding their gears, but not en masse.

there’s also the girl group thing from school days where certain types have to outdo each other. This might be the case too…

This entirely.
Fwiw, I have a very good friend who used to joke that there was more chance of her husband having an affair with his computer than a woman.
No prizes for guessing what happened!

I’ve seen this so many times. The woman takes time out to work on herself while the ex jumps straight in to another relationship with all his issues. All one can hope is that the man has learned something and behaves better to the next woman. If this scenario is real then it’s bloody unfair on the first wife to have been a training crèche so the man can be a better OH to the next woman!

In my situation, most of these women don’t know each other. I can’t imagine I’m the common denominator (as my own relationship with my OH is fairly unconventional). Each of my female friends are very different personalities. The only thing any of them have in common is being female, mid 40s and in a long term relationship with a man.