Wraparound care at school cancelled

[Citytocountry1]

I’ve just opened an email from our school sent last thing on Friday saying they can no longer operate wraparound care as it’s not viable due to lower numbers since last term. They said they tried to find a solution but unfortunately there isn’t one. They didn’t even consult us parents who use it and ask us for more money or even say to the wider school use it or lose it, just decided to close it in March. I would gladly have paid more or had a discussion to figure out how to make it viable.

I work in a non wfh business 4 full 9-5 days a week, Thursday I work until 2.30 so I can pick them up at 3.15pm once a week. The children attend 4 days a week after school. Husband works in a production/manufacturing role and he is going to see what his work will let him reduce hours wise but we know that means pay reduction.

there are no childminders in our area, no nanny’s on childcare websites, the last childminder closed during Covid, we sadly don’t have family in the country so no help there, and the nearest school with wraparound is over 8 miles in the other direction of my work. I don’t really have any friends to ask either, we are quite new here we do know school parents but we don’t have the kind of relationships which some seem to have with each other to ask them to take our children home to theirs after school for nearly 3 hours. That’s a huge ask and I don’t know anyone who would do it.

just so upset and stressed tonight lots of tears and worry about what we do now. I don’t even know what to say to my work, the kind of job I do I can’t do from home and we can’t afford for me to lose it. Aren’t school supposed to consult and figure out how to help make it work?

feeling so panicked about this happening and sad as the children enjoyed the activities at after school and we were able to work knowing they were looked after 😓

What a worrying situation.

The points others have made show that it's complicated but I would also think that Post Covid Home Working has contributed to situations like these.

It's great for those who can work from home but for those who can't, it has a negative impact when there are no longer the same amount of families who need to use After School Care.

If Working From Home was no longer viable, After School Care would be thriving. As that is unlikely to happen, things are only going to get more difficult for those who don't have that flexibility.

There are multiple factors that have made ASC provision less viable, so if you're going to isolate one you need proof. What about shrinking rolls, for example? The kids who've most recently left primary school were the 2013-14 birth cohort. They were a bigger group than the 2020-1 birth cohort who replaced them. Your explanation doesn't even try to account for that.

@Owlbookend I think in Nordic countries childcare after a certain age, possibly 8/9, isn’t really a thing as children are deemed more independent than here, so ‘latchkey’ children are more common there from a young age.

Oh OP what a nightmare and at such short notice. At least If they’d said that they were closing in July and not re-opening in September, that would have given people some notice and a chance to organise something.
As People have said, yes there is a government push for wraparound to be provided and from September this year, I think schools are meant to facilitate this from 8am-6pm (am wraparound, school day and pm wraparound) with the aim of getting people back to work and keeping them in work, but ultimately it does need to be viable financially and if not enough children are going then they can probably use the “not viable” card. Our primary school operate a wraparound and holiday club but it’s very popular and they’ve got an outside company in to facilitate it but it’s an over subscribed school. The holiday club also takes in children from other schools in the area.
I have a childminder so I don’t use it but it is good to know it’s there and I’m sure it helps with school numbers.
Another issue is cost - our local childminders are substantially cheaper than using wraparound club but there is enough kids for it all to work.
I would be looking at moving their school as not only have you got this issue with wraparound, extras are usually the first thing to go before schools look at closure and I’d be getting this sorted before everyone else is looking for an alternative. I hope you can get it sorted.

The problem is the school budget - even with the pay NMW plus taxes plus pensions costs can quickly mount up. Not every school has the wriggle room to operate an ASC at a loss for a small number of children. In my area demand for easily outstrips supply.

A friend looked into running an afterschool club as an external provider and costs/hoops quickly mounted up, along with school and parental expectations she gave up. She struggled dealing with some primary student needs and behaviours. There were a couple of parents regularly late with same old excuses and she had nowhere to leave those children as the few staff around would be in meetings or training at 5pm.

Not sure of a solution other than the country having more childminders.

One of my DCs school had similar. They closed their after school care during COVID, sold it as the school having one during enrollment for that year then told all new reception parents (which I was) once we'd all accepted the school place.
The frustrating part was this was a fully subscribed 30 kid per year school, not a rural village school. They couldn't find anyone to run it.
Parents massively got round it by having older siblings/cousins/friends high school age children collect on their way past from the local high school.
Then the school decided to enforce a new rule that no under 18s could collect children from school.
They did eventually get an outside provider a couple years later, 3 days a week to provide ASC and Holiday Club care but the uptake is still quite low, because by then most of us had found alternative options and reception children couldn't be included if they were under 5 as per the external companies insurance!
Childminders are going to become rarer and rarer for several reasons, I tried to find one for school holidays and there isn't one.

What people? This place is full of mums/women none of them want to be childminders. And those are the ones most likely to do it.
people don’t pay on time, have lots of demands and high standards (not that this is wrong) but who wants the aggro?

how many mums on here would set up or staff asc provisions. Everyone wants these services but no one wants to staff them and work the awkward hours for low pay.

if parents don’t want to work in the sectors that support them to work how can they survive. The altruistic get burnt out, the others eventually get onto full time work. And the odd person it works for are few and far between.

No head is going to tell a parent if this is on the cards-it would be around the whole school in about 20 minutes!

Have you emailed the school to ask if the costs were increased, whether the club would be viable?

Did you miss the bit where I said it's complicated but that post covid home working has contributed?

You clearly did, even though I wrote that in the second line:the first line was sympathising with the OP. How worrying for you.

I do wish people would read what they are responding to.

It's not always a long process, my daughter's school closed a few months after they announced it "may" happen.

Yes actually we had an email at the start of the school year saying only year 6 children were along to go to school alone. And they were not allowed to be responsible for walking younger siblings home. One parent who I’ve just bumped into at the play park told me she 100 per cent sees few kids in year 4 and 5 arriving and leaving school on their own (in fact she says she often walks one unofficially to school as he just stands around on his own on their walk in) I can’t understand how the head is allowing that to happen. How come he hasn’t sent a mass letter out about that

Absolutely this.
The costs are huge and if it’s running at a loss, that shortfall will have to come out of the school budget (which is dwindling all the time). The fact the government want to push for every child having access to breakfast clubs shows how out of touch with reality politicians are.
When I worked at breakfast club and ASC when I was a TA at the school, we had to have at least two members of staff, even if there was only one child left for safeguarding reasons.
@Citytocountry1it sounds such a difficult situation for you all. I must say though, that your school were charging a pittance for their ASC! Way too low and no wonder it was in deficit!
I hope you and your DH have some luck with your employers.

You appear to have missed the bit where you wrote 'If Working From Home was no longer viable, After School Care would be thriving'. How worrying for you.

That's an absolute statement, and it means what I wrote is correct. I do wish people would read what they've written.

Sure, you can say that with a lot of jobs though which are important to society. Who would want to be a teacher or nurse?

@Citytocountry1 technically I don’t think they can stop younger children walking home alone (see enough posters on MN saying they have told school their child can walk home alone regardless of school policy)

Of course, and we have problems recruiting for them too.

Realistically what we'd have to do is throw money at it, but even then the falling birthrates are another issue because people would have the worry that their childcare business won't be sustainable.

Oh dear. 😂

Indeed! Blushing for you.

Give over, you silly sausage1

I agree children have more independence in Nordic countries. However, they do offer co-ordinated after school care (or at least some countries do). Example below from Sweden.

Day recreation centres are places where school pupils can go before and after the school day, while their parents are working or studying. Day recreation centres receive pupils from preschool class up to the age of 13 and are usually located within school premises. Day recreation centres are open during school holidays as well. The Swedish word for day recreation centres is "fritidshem", which is often shortened to "fritids".
All municipalities have to offer a place in a day recreation centre to children attending the municipalities’ preschool classes, compulsory school, special needs compulsory school, and independent schools that don’t have their own day recreation centres.
The state is responsible for providing day recreation centres to children who attend special needs schools and Sami school.

https://www.informationsverige.se/en/om-sverige/att-bilda-familj-och-leva-med-barn-i-sverige/det-svenska-skolsystemet.html

Indeed-I am a teacher (and hate it so much I am leaving, along with thousands of those) but I do recognise that I am paid reasonably well, which is what has kept me in the job for this long. After school club pays minimum wage at any school I’ve worked at. Nobody wants to just work 3.30-6, so it’s generally LSAs that schools try to persuade to work them. The problem is that most LSAs do the (very poorly paid) job as it fits round their own kids so doing the ASC means they either have to find childcare for their kids or have them in the club with them, meaning they can’t take them to their own clubs/have friends round or just do their homework at relax at home. If the LSA has to work 8.30-6, they might as well go and find a job that’s pays better!

Oh mate, I'm not going to be giving over about you apparently not noticing you'd written 'If Working From Home was no longer viable, After School Care would be thriving' and then going on the warpath about it just yet!

Neither of these jobs rely on parents paying on time and doing pick ups on time or god knows what else.

being and independent contractor working for parents and dealing with small children is often thankless. People want 4 text reminders and 15 last chances to pay the bill they get every bloody month. That allows them to do their job.

let alone falling birth rates, children with higher needs, bad behaviour, poor socialisation and stricter requirements for childcare provisions. It makes it an unattractive options.

and it’s not like people are clamouring to be teachers or nurses either.

Yes, this - plus they pay much higher taxes and overall have a very different way of life. So much money would need to spent if we wanted to even come close to how they do it in Norway, Finland etc.

There was a thread on here not long ago filled with posters who wouldn’t let a group of 16yo walk home alone after a party - parents like that are never going to think it’s okay for a 9yo to look after themselves for 2/3 hours after school!

'They already don’t charge enough and a few of us parents mentioned it’s £8 until 6pm and £7 for each sibling also attending. Only £2.50 for the parents who use it until 4.15pm. (1 hour) my children are in until 6pm along with 3 others sometimes more but in the hour session there are usually another 8-10 children.'

So currently you are paying £8 + £7 x 2 = £22 for after school club

along with 3 others sometimes more - are the other 3 children there until 6 every single day ?
are they individual children or siblings ?

if like your family of 3, they are siblings then the asc is only getting £44 a day ( for the until 6pm slot )

' Only £2.50 for the parents who use it until 4.15pm. (1 hour) but in the hour session there are usually another 8-10 children. '

every single day ? I guess you won't know as you aren't there.

but let's guess an average of 9 children @ £2.50 = £22.50 a day

£44 + £22.50 = £66.50 in total for the day

£66.50 does not cover the costs of asc.

If the price of £2.50 doubled, how many children would still go ?

If the price of £2.50 tripled how many children would still go ?

If your cost of £22 doubled would you still use it every day ? yes obiv as you need it.

If the other 3 children's cost doubled would they still go every day ?

It's clear it's all down to costs.

If you did happen to find an individual to look after your children,
your costs will double as it would be £15 ph I guess = £45 plus transport i.e. petrol costs ( and poss changing their car insurance ?) for the adult or bus fares for all 4 or a taxi for all 4
plus some form of food as I guess your children get some type of ' tea ' at asc.