12pts in a week - driving ban

[Jarofgoodness]

I can't believe that this is happening.

I am normally such a careful driver. I hate speeding, always use the speed limiter on my car and have never had even 3pts on my licence in almost 30 years of driving.

Last month I worked away from home for a week, and on the way to my temporary workplace there was a road which I thought was a 30mph road but which was actually a 20. I got caught speeding (high 20s) every single day, and yesterday received four speeding fines in the post at once. £400 in fines but also 12pts which means a mandatory six month driving ban!

I simply cannot believe that this is happening. I know that it is my responsibility to know the speed limit, and that I shouldn't break it. But this punishment seems wildly excessive and unfair to me. I have 30 years of spotless driving, and have not suddenly become dangerous in a week. Surely someone can see the pattern here and note that it was multiple times making the same simple mistake in exactly the same place? I didn't even have time to reflect on one speeding ticket and change my driving behaviour because they all arrived at once, after I had left the area!

What can i do? I am not expecting sympathy as I know I am only receiving the punishment due to me. But I may well lose my job. The form says that I can plead 'exceptional hardship' in court but that losing employment doesn't count.

I see boy racers all the time and yet I am getting banned! It just seems such an unfairness.

Criminal, but only if they can prove it.

OP, you have my fullest sympathies. Most 20mph limits are political, based on po-faced anti-car activists, rather than science and safety.

For years and years 30mph was safe enough, now, as cars are exponentially safer, somehow 30mph is dangerous and only 20mph will do.

Not to mention speed cameras are almost always on wide open roads, where even 40mph would often be safe.

@Jarofgoodness - What do you mean you've received 4 lots of fines?

Have you just received 4 NIPs or have you received 4 conditional offers of a fixed penalty or have you received 4 SJPNs?

Have you not receievd any offers of a speed awareness course?

You should go and post on FTLA for the best advice: Speeding and other criminal offences

Make sure you read the sticky READ THIS FIRST BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE

Wouldn't you ordinarily get to do a speed awareness course instead of 3 points which would take you down to 9?

I also agree with a pp at least 25% of the driving population needs remedial lessons at the very least. I expect every single sanctimonious person posting on this thread speeds on a regular basis, parks on pavements (not illegal but highly inconsiderate and dangerous for pedestrians) and leaves their engines running (which IS illegal). So pipe down.

1.Seek legal advice from a solicitor who specialises in speeding offences before you reply to the tickets. The initial consultation is likely to be free and you'd be surpised how much they might be able to help.
2.Check to see if you can get a speed awareness course for the first offence. That could reduce the total to 9 points which would avoid a ban.

I feel for you OP, and wish you the best of luck.

The prosecutors are well aware of the probability of people trying it on with imaginary other drivers. If you tell them it was your Oz cousin who is now home they'll want details and proof of insurance. No evidence insurance and they'll threaten to do you for permitting.

If you're caught twice a year or two apart you might wing it. Friend of my Mother did that with her husband.

On facts set out by the OP the Police will laugh out loud if you try and say it was someone else.

And if you're caught perverting the course of justice is near certain gaol time.

Huhne's ex bounced back form that but most never will.

If you think the limits are too low campaign.

I actually think 20 in Wales has improved busy urban roads. The road from Connah's Quay through Shotton to the A550, close to DD's gaff, flows better post 20.

OP, you can't remember seeing 20 signs, so the first thing I would do would be to see if there were 20 signs on the section of the road that you drove. Use Google Maps Streetview, and 'walk' the length of road, noting all the signs you would have driven past. It may be you'll see that the signs were there and kick yourself when you work out how you missed them, it may be that the signage is inadequate, in which case an appeal might be merited. Would you be able to check the Streetview by re-driving the route (carefully!)?

For years and years 30mph was safe enough, now, as cars are exponentially safer, somehow 30mph is dangerous and only 20mph will do.

Cars aren't safer now for the pedestrians or cyclists they hit (the aim of a 30 to 20 reduction) - electric cars can be far, far heavier than older cars.

Get a shit hot solicitor to plead your case. You admit you did wrong but compile all facts and see what they can do. At least then you know you’ve tried. My car states the current speed limit on the dashboard which is super handy but doesn’t always register 20mph limits which is annoying.

Yes - I was looking to through to see if anyone said this. You only get offered the speed awareness course once you have returned the NIP admitting that you were driving.

It’s not to do with how safe the car is, it’s because research showed that you’re far more likely to survive if you’re hit by a car which is travelling at 20mph compared to one travelling at 30mph.

I don't understand why people are insisting that the 20mph rules are "bullshit" or money-making schemes. The survival rate for being hit by a car is 95% if the car is doing 20mph. That drops to around 55% if the car is doing 30mph.

I rarely get past 25mph on built-up roads because it doesn't feel safe. On streets that are double-parked, I doubt I ever reach 25mph, tbh. 30mph is a limit, not a target. You're supposed to adjust your driving to the circumstances, and I cannot see how 30mph could possibly be safe in most residential areas, maybe on long, straight, and wide roads, but there aren't a lot of those in a typical town.

@OP If it's possible, I would drive back or ask someone in the area to drive the route with a dashcam. Chances are you will notice the signage and kick yourself for not noticing it, but if the signs are not there, you might have a defence (if they are there, your driving is not as good as you think it is, and you could do with a speed awareness course).

It's irrelevant that it's the same week, same place and even more irrelevant that the road is unfamiliar.

I don’t care about age or race etc: a dangerous driver is a dangerous driver. Your driving has deteriorated with time. If that makes me ageist, then fine.

How do you split the points with them exactly?

They're clearly suggesting the OP lies and says a partner was driving on one or more of the occasions. Against the law and completely immoral.

Yes I realised after I posted. The advice on here sometimes beggars belief

"Splitting points" is pretty common. I know a few people who've done it. I don't agree with it, but it happens probably more often than you'd think.

I witnessed the aftermath of a fatal RTA a few years ago, which has probably coloured my view of dangerous driving. The driver in this case was found not be at fault. The child ran out in front of her, and she had no chance to react, but that didn't make the incident any less traumatic for those involved.

I didn't see the crash itself, I was working in a shop when I heard a scream, and a car braking hard. We in the shop were first on scene, and it was absolutely horrific, not so much the scene itself, but the emotional response from the driver and the parent and siblings of the boy who was hit. It's a situation I never want to be in, either as a parent or a driver.

It was close to a roundabout, so I doubt the driver was going very fast, but the height of the child vs the size of the car meant he was hit head-on. He died in the air ambulance en route to the hospital. The driver later told me that the police assured her the nature of his injuries meant he would have had no awareness of what happened.

I never met the mother again, but the driver called into the shop a couple of months after to thank us for looking after her. She was absolutely traumatised, heavily medicated, and as far as I am aware, has never driven since.

Getting to your destination a few minutes earlier is not worth the risk, no matter how small you judge that risk to be. 20 is plenty.

Didn’t a politician (or possibly his wife, or both) go to prison for it?

Chris Huhne and Vicky Pryce were sentenced to 8 months each, according to Google. And an MP for Peterborough and her brother were sentenced to 3 months and 10 months, respectively, for the same offence.

You illegally name them as the driver at the time(s) of one or more NIPs (NIP = Notice of Prosecution).Opening you both up to prosecution for Criminal actions. It’s illegal, immoral and plain stupid.

Oh, and depending how you get the other person to take ‘your’ points you could be open to prosecution for coercive control.

I think the expression is ‘a shit show’.

You should be offered a speeding course for the first offence, then 9 points total for the remaining 3offences.
If you do end up getting 12 points, You can plead hardship based on the fact you would be unable to pay your mortgage if your income would reduce and may lose your house.
Do not pay £5000 for a motoring lawyers 4 you type scam. They will not get you a more favourable outcome than a local criminal solicitor.

Losing your house or losing your job is not exceptional hardship.

It is

It's basically anywhere that had a default of 30 previously. So mostly built up suburban areas.

It changed about 5 years ago, and a bunch of roads that were 30 were kept at 30, and some have been reverted back in the time in between, but generally if your on a residential street, and you've not seen a speed limit sign then it's a 20.

It doesn't tend to catch most Welsh people out, because it was really well publicised before it came into force. But most English people don't seem to be aware of it, and I know a few who've been caught out.

Why?