To think Lucy Letby could’ve done more to help herself if she really wasn’t guilty?

[Seymorbutts]

Just watched the new Lucy Letby documentary on Netflix. I think there’s one of C4 too, don’t know if it’s the same one? I’m leaning slightly more towards that she did it, but only about 60% sure she did it. 40% sure she didn’t do it. On this doc there’s a lot of footage of all her arrests and police interviews. What strikes me as odd IF she’s innocent, is how little she protests her innocence, how calm & composed she is. It’s the same during her arrests. I understand she must’ve been in shock when she was arrested so that could explain it. But she was interviewed for hours. Not once did she say “I didn’t do this” (unless directly asked, which she just answered with “no”) “I’m innocent”, “I could never kill a baby”. Nothing like that. Very little crying too. I know she’s supposedly very quiet and reserved and I’m sure was very scared, but I don’t think personality can account for a total lack of defending herself (or maybe she was just following the advice given by her lawyer). But still, if it was me I’d be absolutely raging, and protesting my innocence at every opportunity and giving clear, detailed reasons why I couldn’t have done it when they put it to me that I did. Or maybe she did do it and she’s a psychopath and unable to show remorse, which could explain her lack of any kind of emotion at all 🤷‍♀️ I really don’t know. If she is innocent though, I feel like the way she behaved made her look guilty. Interested to hear if people think she did it or not and why/why not…

Funny the way you can't actually refute the things I've said though, isn't it? I'm hoping that as you're now disclaiming some of the nonsense you came out with, that means you've learned a few things, but perhaps that's optimistic of me.

For someone who was finished several posts ago, you're still very attached to a thread on a topic you're completely unqualified to comment on. To the extent that you're reduced to using stigmatising terms about people with mental health problems in an attempt to detract from your lack of anything else to say.

Really ? you deny saying something, get quoted to show you did and then wonder about the point ? 🙄

Gosh, your psychological expertise has really mushroomed over the last few hours. I wonder what someone with diagnostic ability would make of it.

Thankfully, I've only been two tramatic situations in life.

Two completely different reactions.

First time, I went into solution mode immediately. Did all the right things etc. If you saw or listened to me you would have got the impression I was totally calm, confident, emotionless, and going what needed to be done. It was a full week later before the enormity of the situation hit me. Delayed shock or something.

Second incident, I froze. I can just remember screaming repeatedly but no sound coming out. Froze on the spot.
I doubt I could have even told you my own name at the time.

Reactions, behaviour, body language don't indicate innocence or guilt. They may not even be consistent in the same person.

This video was recommended on my YouTube account. I post it for information without commenting on the accuracy but it does discuss LLs behaviour at interview so may be of interest, it's just over 7 minutes in length, especially to some.

Why would a guilty person write "I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them" (i.e. because I was incompetent as a nurse), in a note titled "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" at the top? And "We tried our best and it wasn't enough". And "I don't know if I killed them. Maybe I did. Maybe this is down to me." It's all more consistent with her wondering if she somehow failed as a nurse (or her team failed -- "we"). A killer wouldn't wonder if it's down to her, she'd know. And a killer wouldn't be upset that she and her team failed to prevent deaths.

"How do we know that there were other suspicious deaths that were excluded" -- e.g., from The Telegraph: Letby police ignored other baby deaths on unit ; Lucy Letby was not working on day Baby C was harmed, BBC investigation finds. Unherd reports that some incidents initially flagged as suspicious were reclassified as unsuspicious after realizing that Letby wasn't working at the time. Letby's accusers chose which cases to pass to the police. The judge denied a defense request for information about cases investigated but not charged.

Yup

Thanks. It’s absolutely wild. I have seen different media posts saying numbers from she was there for every death - no babies died except the ones in the trial - to there were 13 deaths or 17 deaths over the 2 years. You would expect some deaths to be very obviously non suspicious but it doesn’t even seem to have been mentioned until after the trial and it’s hugely relevant if the spike was due to an overall standard of poor care and a lack of available beds in more specialist units.

I don’t understand AT ALL why the x-Ray for baby C wasn’t challenged, although I think some of the explanations were when she lived in hospital accommodation she may just pop up at any moment.

“she may just pop up at any moment” — then so can anyone, so why focus on her at all?

Watching this now. There is no way Lucy is innocent!
Her diary entries with children’s initials and the paper work she took home and kept, that alone screams guilty to me! And her scribbles about the children and writing ‘murder’ next to them.

She’s so cold and unfeeling in all the interviews..

She was on nights and the babies died, moved to days and baby started dying… she was suspended and the deaths stopped!…. It’s no coincidence!

@RavenPie there were deaths - BUT they only looked into the deaths that were sudden/suspicious .. she was there for all the suspicious deaths

It 'screams' guilt does it?

Experts disagree with you on every point - psychological experts, statistical experts, medical experts and scientific experts.

Well that's it then - the appeal is pointless, another of the MN experts have spoken.

Surely her defence should have been allowed to access all the babies notes to determine if
A - there was a pattern of poor care that would explain all deaths - or at least mean pinning it on her was unsafe or
B - they were suspicious therefore she shouldn’t have been the only suspect eg reasonable doubt

It’s bizarre it wasn’t done.

If the deaths weren’t suspicious you would think it would strengthen the prosecution case to have them examined rather than have this colossal doubt.

AFAIK they weren't allowed to mention any babies that she wasn't accused of harming, nor were they allowed to mention the (critical) RCPCH report on the unit nor were they allowed any information about the mothers' pregnancies. All of which might have influenced whether there were other credible alternatives to murder in the first place.

They definitely didn't have access to all notes - that is one of their grounds for review in the CCRC application

When Lucy Letby was suspended, the hospital stopped taking babies born before 32 weeks, twins and triplets, and children from complex pregnancies. They removed their intensive care unit, keeping just one cot in case of unexpected emergencies. They agreed that vulnerable babies would be transferred out as soon as possible.

They had an external review which showed they had unsafe levels of staffing, poor communications, insufficient skills especially around resuscitation. They fixed the staffing levels. They hired neonatologists for the first time. Even so they have never gone back to taking vulnerable babies. So you can't compare death rates before and after that point.

Iirc she did pop up and other people didn’t as a rule, because she was living on site but yes. I guess that’s what all the door swipe data was about but that seemed to go nowhere - if you didn’t swipe in it didn’t mean you werent there, so the whole thing was nonsense.

Deaths and collapses didn't follow Lucy Letby from night to day. The police dropped investigation into deaths and collapses at nights and days when she wasn't working. This made it look as if deaths and collapses followed her from night to day

Yes, and presumably she wasn't the only nurse or doctor living onsite!

Yes, and this is yet another thing about the case that, even if she's guilty as sin, is a problem we should all be concerned about. We need systems that prevent failures in disclosure.