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To think Lucy Letby could’ve done more to help herself if she really wasn’t guilty?

1000 replies

Seymorbutts · 10/02/2026 23:59

Just watched the new Lucy Letby documentary on Netflix. I think there’s one of C4 too, don’t know if it’s the same one? I’m leaning slightly more towards that she did it, but only about 60% sure she did it. 40% sure she didn’t do it. On this doc there’s a lot of footage of all her arrests and police interviews. What strikes me as odd IF she’s innocent, is how little she protests her innocence, how calm & composed she is. It’s the same during her arrests. I understand she must’ve been in shock when she was arrested so that could explain it. But she was interviewed for hours. Not once did she say “I didn’t do this” (unless directly asked, which she just answered with “no”) “I’m innocent”, “I could never kill a baby”. Nothing like that. Very little crying too. I know she’s supposedly very quiet and reserved and I’m sure was very scared, but I don’t think personality can account for a total lack of defending herself (or maybe she was just following the advice given by her lawyer). But still, if it was me I’d be absolutely raging, and protesting my innocence at every opportunity and giving clear, detailed reasons why I couldn’t have done it when they put it to me that I did. Or maybe she did do it and she’s a psychopath and unable to show remorse, which could explain her lack of any kind of emotion at all 🤷‍♀️ I really don’t know. If she is innocent though, I feel like the way she behaved made her look guilty. Interested to hear if people think she did it or not and why/why not…

OP posts:
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Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 19:27

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 18:14

This is a really good video pointing out all (well some-apparently there's A LOT) of the mistakes the "expert panel" made. Makes sense as there would have to be numerous mistakes/omissions to ever make Lucy look not guilty!

s

Just goes to show why you shouldn't put all your faith in an expert to the point you think all other evidence is completely irrelevant. Shoo Lee and his panel have been well and truly debunked. But I guess he'll just keep parroting that it's everyone else just misunderstanding him.

Also had to laugh at people losing their minds over the man's huge ego naming the rash after himself.

Oliver's videos are very poor.

She is constantly misrepresenting what the panel said and what was said in court.

She also carries on as if she has seen the medical records, which she has not, or the full medical reports from the experts, which she has not

Of course I haven't seen either of those things either, but I have seen the panel summaries she is discussing and the trial reporting and transcript excerpts. So it is easy for me, simply by reading, to see that she is mistating things.

For example, re baby O:

She misrepresents what the panel says about the child's hematoma. This was probably present from birth. But that does not mean it was bleeding from birth - that wouldn't necessarily happen and she never claims this.

She mixes up the child's first collapse and the child's third collapse when taking about ventilatory pressures.

She says that the panel was wrong about ventilatory pressures being high because there was a lower start value. This doesn't mean the second pressure, which she does cite, isn't high. But she also ignores a third, higher pressure - all in the trial records. Presumably she thinks her viewers won't double check.

That's a typical one minute sequence. Her level of accuracy on things we can check is appalling. Other assertions could only be verified with access to the medical records, which she hasn't got.

I am sure Cindy is a very good dog, but for whatever reason, Oliver is not acting here as a very good scientist. She is not trustworthy.

NorfolkandBad · 23/02/2026 19:29

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 18:14

This is a really good video pointing out all (well some-apparently there's A LOT) of the mistakes the "expert panel" made. Makes sense as there would have to be numerous mistakes/omissions to ever make Lucy look not guilty!

s

Just goes to show why you shouldn't put all your faith in an expert to the point you think all other evidence is completely irrelevant. Shoo Lee and his panel have been well and truly debunked. But I guess he'll just keep parroting that it's everyone else just misunderstanding him.

Also had to laugh at people losing their minds over the man's huge ego naming the rash after himself.

There are stacks of YouTube videos about the injustice of the trial and dodgy evidence - but you do you.

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 19:30

Namingbaba · 23/02/2026 19:26

I think it's fine to challenge Dr Shoo if you have evidence but it puts me off her straight away when she asserts that Shoo and his team have been desperate to come to the conclusion they did as they've been told to come to this conclusion - by whom? It's quite a claim to make.
She makes quite big claims throughout that I don't see backed up. Such as that Dr Shoo biased the panel and gave them false info, and told them what to find. The evidence presented for this is in the email he says that there might be a miscarriage of justice.

I never understand some of the complaints against Shoo as the same issues could be used against Dr Dewi Evans especially around issues of arrogance and making claims.

Edited

Yes. Her sneering and lashing out about liars is a sign of the type of audience she wants to attract. She's not looking for people who will fact check her (or anyone else). She's trying to attract followers excited by the scent of burning witch.

Her claims are hopelessly inaccurate or simply untestable, but having sat through three of her productions by now I am fairly confident that's a feature, not a bug.

NorfolkandBad · 23/02/2026 19:52

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 19:30

Yes. Her sneering and lashing out about liars is a sign of the type of audience she wants to attract. She's not looking for people who will fact check her (or anyone else). She's trying to attract followers excited by the scent of burning witch.

Her claims are hopelessly inaccurate or simply untestable, but having sat through three of her productions by now I am fairly confident that's a feature, not a bug.

Reminds me of someone, can't think who at the moment.

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 20:00

NorfolkandBad · 23/02/2026 19:29

There are stacks of YouTube videos about the injustice of the trial and dodgy evidence - but you do you.

I'm currently watching that Botched doc now. But if you're not interested in hearing from both sides then you do you...

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 20:37

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 19:30

Yes. Her sneering and lashing out about liars is a sign of the type of audience she wants to attract. She's not looking for people who will fact check her (or anyone else). She's trying to attract followers excited by the scent of burning witch.

Her claims are hopelessly inaccurate or simply untestable, but having sat through three of her productions by now I am fairly confident that's a feature, not a bug.

She's trying to attract followers excited by the scent of burning witch.

😆😆😆that's a vivid imagination you've got there. If she was making docs in support of Letby you wouldn't care what inaccurate claims she made. Besides, she's using everything covered in court ie agreed facts on the condition of the babies to explain why Shoo Lee and his panel are wrong. She's debunked Shoo Lee which you hate as you've put all your hopes in him.

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 20:47

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 20:37

She's trying to attract followers excited by the scent of burning witch.

😆😆😆that's a vivid imagination you've got there. If she was making docs in support of Letby you wouldn't care what inaccurate claims she made. Besides, she's using everything covered in court ie agreed facts on the condition of the babies to explain why Shoo Lee and his panel are wrong. She's debunked Shoo Lee which you hate as you've put all your hopes in him.

That's the point - she's not using agreed facts. She's misrepresenting and ignoring them.

For example, in that video, she claims that the panel was wrong to imply a ventilatory pressure was damagingly high, when it was 28/6. She ignores the fact that it was then turned higher, to 32/6. That's from the court record as well as the panel summary. So why is she pretending it didn't exist?

I actually try to avoid videos with this kind of sneering and drama from both sides of the debate, because I don't want to watch them and I think that if you can't make your point without this approach, it's not a good sign.

I made an exception for Susan Oliver because her videos could look like the only significant claims out there about the science, from the party insisting Lucy Letby is guilty. I fact checked what I watched. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all

NorfolkandBad · 23/02/2026 21:17

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 20:37

She's trying to attract followers excited by the scent of burning witch.

😆😆😆that's a vivid imagination you've got there. If she was making docs in support of Letby you wouldn't care what inaccurate claims she made. Besides, she's using everything covered in court ie agreed facts on the condition of the babies to explain why Shoo Lee and his panel are wrong. She's debunked Shoo Lee which you hate as you've put all your hopes in him.

She also compares those who think LL COULD be innocent with anti-vaxxers.

Google her and check some of the Reddit discussions about her, I'm not sure it's Cindy that's barking mad.

She also seems to have a dislike of Dr John Campbell.

She was 14k followers, he has 3.1 million - and yet she is the one who can debunk lots of his claims. Dr C was a clinician, from the comments (which may or may not be true of course) she was a materials scientist.

<EDIT - she's got a PhD in nanomedicine>

From what I can see she simply picks controversial topics and presents a different view of them and claims all sorts of things about them, she brings personal attacks into most of her videos and the attack dogs leap on them like they are facts.

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 21:21

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 20:47

That's the point - she's not using agreed facts. She's misrepresenting and ignoring them.

For example, in that video, she claims that the panel was wrong to imply a ventilatory pressure was damagingly high, when it was 28/6. She ignores the fact that it was then turned higher, to 32/6. That's from the court record as well as the panel summary. So why is she pretending it didn't exist?

I actually try to avoid videos with this kind of sneering and drama from both sides of the debate, because I don't want to watch them and I think that if you can't make your point without this approach, it's not a good sign.

I made an exception for Susan Oliver because her videos could look like the only significant claims out there about the science, from the party insisting Lucy Letby is guilty. I fact checked what I watched. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all

Edited

For example, in that video, she claims that the panel was wrong to imply a ventilatory pressure was damagingly high, when it was 28/6. She ignores the fact that it was then turned higher, to 32/6. That's from the court record as well as the panel summary. So why is she pretending it didn't exist?

So just one claim you disagree with then? Which baby is she talking about there?

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 21:34

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 21:21

For example, in that video, she claims that the panel was wrong to imply a ventilatory pressure was damagingly high, when it was 28/6. She ignores the fact that it was then turned higher, to 32/6. That's from the court record as well as the panel summary. So why is she pretending it didn't exist?

So just one claim you disagree with then? Which baby is she talking about there?

Baby O in that case.

No, that is one quick example of her misrepresenting things. (I wouldn't call it just a claim I disagree with. The 32/6 is an important and relevant fact she leaves out)

There are lots more. I posted some a few posts back. I can post more but probably tomorrow if you want me to.

NorfolkandBad · 23/02/2026 21:54

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 21:34

Baby O in that case.

No, that is one quick example of her misrepresenting things. (I wouldn't call it just a claim I disagree with. The 32/6 is an important and relevant fact she leaves out)

There are lots more. I posted some a few posts back. I can post more but probably tomorrow if you want me to.

I wouldn't bother, it wont make any difference - dozens of doctors around the world have expressed concerns about the conviction but FF1987 ignores them and comes back with a single video from a non-clinician and her dog.

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 22:17

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 21:34

Baby O in that case.

No, that is one quick example of her misrepresenting things. (I wouldn't call it just a claim I disagree with. The 32/6 is an important and relevant fact she leaves out)

There are lots more. I posted some a few posts back. I can post more but probably tomorrow if you want me to.

But she literally says in the video that he was placed on a higher setting when he collapsed for a third time Confused

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 22:25

Firefly1987 · 23/02/2026 22:17

But she literally says in the video that he was placed on a higher setting when he collapsed for a third time Confused

She says he was placed on 28/6 when he collapsed for the third time. (Which is inaccurate - that was his first collapse).

She says that is higher than 24/6, as indeed it is. She does not mention the extremely high setting of 32/6.

Not sure why the confused face? It's clear she's left out key information that would undermine her suggestion the ventilation doesn't matter.

kkloo · 24/02/2026 00:33

Oh well close the threads and withdraw the submission to the CCRC, everything has been debunked by this extremely credible and professional sounding lady.

rubbishatballet · 24/02/2026 07:35

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 22:25

She says he was placed on 28/6 when he collapsed for the third time. (Which is inaccurate - that was his first collapse).

She says that is higher than 24/6, as indeed it is. She does not mention the extremely high setting of 32/6.

Not sure why the confused face? It's clear she's left out key information that would undermine her suggestion the ventilation doesn't matter.

Edited

Have you got a source for the ventilator pressure being 28/6 following baby O’s first collapse rather than the third as she says in the video? I have no idea what any of the pressures actually mean, but would be interested to see the discrepancy.

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 13:28

According to transcript excerpts, Dr Bohin stated this in court

Q. Moving on, please, you note next at your paragraph 4.14 that there was a profound desaturation at 14.40 hours.
A. Yes.
Q. Is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And that [Baby O] was described in the nursing notes as "mottled ++"?
A. Yes.
Q. You repeat that information from [Dr A]'s perspective in your paragraph 4.15, which equates to tile 199; is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. At that stage [Baby O] had to be bagged with a Neopuff; is that right?
A. He was bagged with a Neopuff in 100% oxygen and in fact needed high pressures in order to get some clinical improvement. [Dr A] explained that this morning: with normal pressures they couldn't actually get the saturations back, so the pressures were increased to 28/6 in order to get good saturations and chest expansion.

There's some discussion of this and other errors in Oliver's work at https://www.reddit.com/r/LucyLetbyTrials/s/DNdLdXqtni

coffeeandteav · 24/02/2026 13:30

Oftenaddled · 23/02/2026 19:27

Oliver's videos are very poor.

She is constantly misrepresenting what the panel said and what was said in court.

She also carries on as if she has seen the medical records, which she has not, or the full medical reports from the experts, which she has not

Of course I haven't seen either of those things either, but I have seen the panel summaries she is discussing and the trial reporting and transcript excerpts. So it is easy for me, simply by reading, to see that she is mistating things.

For example, re baby O:

She misrepresents what the panel says about the child's hematoma. This was probably present from birth. But that does not mean it was bleeding from birth - that wouldn't necessarily happen and she never claims this.

She mixes up the child's first collapse and the child's third collapse when taking about ventilatory pressures.

She says that the panel was wrong about ventilatory pressures being high because there was a lower start value. This doesn't mean the second pressure, which she does cite, isn't high. But she also ignores a third, higher pressure - all in the trial records. Presumably she thinks her viewers won't double check.

That's a typical one minute sequence. Her level of accuracy on things we can check is appalling. Other assertions could only be verified with access to the medical records, which she hasn't got.

I am sure Cindy is a very good dog, but for whatever reason, Oliver is not acting here as a very good scientist. She is not trustworthy.

But you could equally say this about Lee's panel. There is stuff they got wrong even a babies gender if I recall correctly. So is he a bad one too?

Sure they all get stuff mixed up its a massive case.

Thanks @fireflyfor being the voice of reason.

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 13:37

coffeeandteav · 24/02/2026 13:30

But you could equally say this about Lee's panel. There is stuff they got wrong even a babies gender if I recall correctly. So is he a bad one too?

Sure they all get stuff mixed up its a massive case.

Thanks @fireflyfor being the voice of reason.

Both get details wrong, yes.

The difference (apart from the volume of errors in Oliver's case) is that the errors people have noted in the panel's case aren't relevant to their argument. So if - for example - I argued about the effect of a medication delivered by nurse x and it had in fact been delivered by nurse y, the point on the effect wouldn't change.

Oliver's errors and omissions, though, are relevant to her argument and bolster her side of things. So they are either deliberate distortions or terribly coincidental misunderstandings. Because if you take them out, her argument falls apart

That's the difference. She's well outside the territory of typos or copy and paste errors.

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 13:40

Amanda Knox's first episode on Lucy Letby's case out today. Scene-setting mostly, wit some interesting comments on how media framing and restrictions affected the popular narrative

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-verdict/id1877870463?i=1000751139783

rubbishatballet · 24/02/2026 14:00

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 13:28

According to transcript excerpts, Dr Bohin stated this in court

Q. Moving on, please, you note next at your paragraph 4.14 that there was a profound desaturation at 14.40 hours.
A. Yes.
Q. Is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And that [Baby O] was described in the nursing notes as "mottled ++"?
A. Yes.
Q. You repeat that information from [Dr A]'s perspective in your paragraph 4.15, which equates to tile 199; is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. At that stage [Baby O] had to be bagged with a Neopuff; is that right?
A. He was bagged with a Neopuff in 100% oxygen and in fact needed high pressures in order to get some clinical improvement. [Dr A] explained that this morning: with normal pressures they couldn't actually get the saturations back, so the pressures were increased to 28/6 in order to get good saturations and chest expansion.

There's some discussion of this and other errors in Oliver's work at https://www.reddit.com/r/LucyLetbyTrials/s/DNdLdXqtni

It’s not clear from this excerpt which collapse she’s being asked about though? On the face of it, what she’s saying there could still relate to the third collapse, and tie in with Dr A’s quote in the video about the first two collapses - or am I missing something?

And where is the 32/6 setting mentioned?

To think Lucy Letby could’ve done more to help herself if she really wasn’t guilty?
LuisCarol · 24/02/2026 14:12

Firefly1987 · 19/02/2026 20:34

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel you can't investigate everyone on the unit to that extent. They narrowed it down to her at the beginning of the investigation. Anything else is just a waste of time and resources. There's absolutely no need either when they'd already found their suspect!

Karl Popper disagrees.

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 14:14

rubbishatballet · 24/02/2026 14:00

It’s not clear from this excerpt which collapse she’s being asked about though? On the face of it, what she’s saying there could still relate to the third collapse, and tie in with Dr A’s quote in the video about the first two collapses - or am I missing something?

And where is the 32/6 setting mentioned?

At 1440 hours is the first collapse - and "at that stage" would mean during that collapse. Dr A went off the ward after that collapse - one of the problems noted with the resuscitation efforts, so they are very much discrete events

https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/evidence/inq0018008-pages-9-and-10-of-document-titled-level-2-root-cause-analysis-investigation-report-relating-to-child-o-dated-23-06-2016/

"Despite the patient receiving a significant step up to intensive care provision, the registrar left the ward to attend to clinical commitments elsewhere in the unit, resulting in a delay in attendance at sudden unexpected collapse. All registrars to remain on neonatal unit when there are any patients who are receiving recent intensive care provision"

INQ0018008 – Pages 9 and 10 of Document titled Level 2 Root Cause Analysis Investigation Report, relating to Child O, dated 23/06/2016 | The Thirlwall Inquiry

Examining the events at the Countess of Chester Hospital and their implications following the trial, and subsequent convictions, of former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby of murder and attempted murder of babies at the hospital.

https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/evidence/inq0018008-pages-9-and-10-of-document-titled-level-2-root-cause-analysis-investigation-report-relating-to-child-o-dated-23-06-2016/

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 14:15

LuisCarol · 24/02/2026 14:12

Karl Popper disagrees.

And so does national police guidance!

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 14:26

rubbishatballet · 24/02/2026 14:00

It’s not clear from this excerpt which collapse she’s being asked about though? On the face of it, what she’s saying there could still relate to the third collapse, and tie in with Dr A’s quote in the video about the first two collapses - or am I missing something?

And where is the 32/6 setting mentioned?

Different examination for the 32/6, with Dr Brearey.

A. I noted a good colour change on the capnograph and he became stable enough to be put back on to the ventilator, this time at slightly higher pressures. So the rate was the same, 60 per minute. His inspired oxygen concentration was 100% this time, which is higher than previously, and the pressures were 32/6, so higher peak pressures on the ventilator, so needing to do more work at that stage.

Q. Could you expand upon that again as to why the ventilatory support was enhanced?

A. Well, it's hard to say other than the fact that those ventilator pressures were needed to maintain [Baby O]'s saturations and observations.

This ties in with what the panel claimed: they had never claimed that the highest pressure came early in the sequence of collapses

At 1551h he desaturated again and was reintubated, receiving cardiac massage, adrenaline (8 doses), bicarbonate (3
doses), and saline infusions. His ventilation pressures were increased to 32/6 in 100% O2. Dopamine was started and needle aspiration of the abdomen was performed. An intraosseous line was inserted
because of poor circulation. ...

The only comment they make about Baby O's ventilation anyway is to note that he was ventilated with high pressures. They don't blame that for his death, deterioration or collapses (though others have commented that they played a part). It's in the case of his triplet, baby P, that the panel cited high ventilatory pressures as a problem. So it's really not clear what point Oliver is trying to make here: pressures weren't high? (They were). They weren't high when the panel said they were? (Trial transcript says otherwise). They didn't cause collapse? (Panel never said they did).

Oftenaddled · 24/02/2026 14:35

rubbishatballet · 24/02/2026 14:00

It’s not clear from this excerpt which collapse she’s being asked about though? On the face of it, what she’s saying there could still relate to the third collapse, and tie in with Dr A’s quote in the video about the first two collapses - or am I missing something?

And where is the 32/6 setting mentioned?

The back on 24/6 in your quotation there obviously implies he was higher previously.

And honestly, this is ridiculous. The panel have the notes with the full record of baby O's ventilation settings (and have presumably included them in what they submitted to the CCRC)

Dr Oliver does not have access to these records. At most, she could claim that the panel opinion relied on evidence that isn't available in the trial records. Though she's not doing a great job there. But since the panel is working primarily from the medical records, it should be fairly obvious that she can't prove a negative - something is not in them - from the naturally selective information in trial proceedings.

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