The NHS. We need to fight to keep it.

[Differentforgirls]

My Mil is 87. Last year (around September) she was bleeding from her vagina and went to her GP.

The GP referred her to hospital for tests, which she got quickly.

It was cancerous polyps in her womb so she got further tests to ensure they hadn’t spread and was referred for surgery.

Tonight she has been discharged from hospital after numerous tests over the intervening months and a surgery yesterday (keyhole).

She’ll get follow up treatment too.

All NHS, where she has been treated with dignity, respect and kindness.

It might not be what it was due to cuts but it’s still something we should be proud of.

She’ll celebrate her 88th birthday next month, as an OAP in social housing with nothing but her pension, because of the NHS.

AIBU for thinking the NHS is something to be proud of and fight to keep?

But free at the point of use and abysmal for many (patients and staff alike) is hardly something to be proud of or want to keep unchanged.

Unbelievable. Is this really what you want?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/26/doctor-nhs-postwar-britain-mental-health

He seems to still want to go.If I don’t take him then his care home will book hospital transport for him.

Just to add that 14 months ago he was as fit as a fiddle, not even taking a single medication, and living at home. He was then diagnosed with the heart failure, followed by kidney cancer 7 months later. Just to show that a seemingly very healthy 84 year old can go massively downhill in a very short time.

Because some people can’t even afford food.

The price of that is that some people are not allowed to use it.

you either have free at the point of use but some people will be told to go away they are not allowed to use it OR you relax some of this.

in America it is mostly not free at the point of use (although even in America there are charity hospitals)

in Europe it is not free at the point of use for everyone (only for lower income or state supported people

in the uk it is free at the point of use for everyone but you must fight your way past bureaucracy and for some conditions/situations it can’t be used.

It needs more investment. It’s been getting run down since austerity!

And in a European system they are fully funded by the government.

ffs people there are more options than the nhs or dying on the streets.
most other countries have a better healthcare system than the nhs. The uk has been dropping down the rankings on health outcomes for decades now.

Sorry, who can’t use it?

That doesn't happen in countries where routine medical care is kept at a lower cost.

The truth is, people also die because they aren't able to get care efficiently enough.

Emergency care is a different case - and perhaps that's where the discussion lies: around what constitutes an issue that can be seen and progressed within the system free and swiftly.

I wonder why? Could it be because successive Tory Govts have underinvested in it because they want to make it private?

I think OP just wanted an anti Tory/Reform rant in an echo chamber, seems she didn't get it.

But plenty can. And those same people can afford a doctor.

The real issue with the NHS is that people are effectively saying if one person gets it free, we all have to. And private care is so costly, many actually can't afford it.

To me the answer is in looking at a lower cost for private care with a stricter threshold for free care.

If my son lived in the US he would have to pay for his own insulin. Diabetic type 1 people there die because they can’t afford to buy the only thing keeping them alive.

Ah, the person who accused me of being on benefits opines yet again to try to start an arguement with someone who hadn’t mentioned reform.

Bored are you?

Yes but insulin isn't treating a fungal toenail is it?

The point is we need discussion around what should be funded and what people (and which people) should fund themselves - at more realistic costings than private medical care currently is in the uk.

Would you rather have free at the point of use and sub standard, patient outcomes, as you have today. Or, like almost every other public healthcare system in Europe, a small co-pay where appropriate, de centralised delivery responsibility and a mix of public, not for profit and private health care provision and better outcomes for patients? Like for instance the Dutch, French or German public healthcare systems, all of which provide far better outcomes for patients and none of which are even remotely like the American model.

It is not a binary choice between NHS good and American system bad. It is clear that a public healthcare system is good. It is also clear that the NHS model delivers worse outcomes that all other EU public healthcare systems. Those fighting to preserve the NHS model are fighting for worse outcomes for patients.

You only have to look at how misleading your Government has been about the recent reduction in waiting lists. Yes, waiting lists are down, but also so is the number of people being treated. How can both be true? Simple. They are manipulating the figures. They are paying NHS trusts to remove people from the waiting lists. Now, at one level taking people of waiting lists who dont need to be there is a good thing. But it shouldn't need the Government to instgate this, and it shouldn't require additional paymnet, Its just business as usual activity that they should have been doing.

No sorry, I disagree. The fact that it’s free for all allows poorer people the dignity of being treated like everyone else.

Affording is relative, though, isn't it. People may well be able to afford to pay for the occasional GP visit, and even for bigger operations like hip replacements. But what about paying for surgery and intensive care when they have that sudden heart attack or serious accident? Few people have hundreds of thousands of pounds lying around to cover that sort of risk.

I thought most people would treat the toe nail themselves?

Think I’ve made myself clear.

He is from an era where people do as their told, respect what the Dr says etc.

But if he has the colonoscopy, the preparation for which is brutal and they find lung cancer - will he have treatment?

If not what is the point of him having the test?

I haven't mentioned benefits, you imagined it.

Excellent post.

Anyone with experience of both the UK NHS and other European health systems knows that the NHS just doesn’t work as well. It’s a pretty poisonous institution and an awful employer. Root and branch reform is needed. Less covering up and more decency and transparency.

Oh really. Which situations would there be for me not to pay tax?

It needs to be completely restructured to reduce inefficiency and improve patient care.

And you keep going on about the Tories but you’re in Scotland - what about the SNP’s role in this shitshow? What about Labour’s role in the shitshow that seems to be the NHS in Wales?

Flinging money at a declining organisation that hasn’t been fit for purpose for a very long time isn’t the answer.