To wonder whether a lot of women who claim to be sex workers and promote 'sex work should be work' are actually madams/female pimps?

[Carla786]

I personally think that women who sell sex are usually, if not trafficked, forced to do so by poverty, and that this should not happen. Even if a minority choose to do it without that pressure, I still don't think sex should be a commodity.(Obviously a minority of people selling sex are men, with issues that need looking at, but this is focusing on women)
So I've recently been looking at articles by people who argue sex work can be a job like any other with no inherent issues. I noted that one US blogger dubbing herself 'The Honest Courtesan' (real name Maggie mcNeill) was often cited, and she'd even been promoted by outlets like Washington Post & libertarian ones like Reason as a voice of sex workers. I noted after examining her blog that she'd posted quite a bit about running a brothel since early 2000s, and between the lines it seemed most of her 'sex work' was actually selling other women's sex rather than her own.

I wonder how common this is? It's interesting that women who sell other women's sexual services are generally known as 'madams' which sounds less derogatory but is in many ways indistinguishable from 'pimp'. It would certainly explain why a small but vocal minority of women defend sex work as a job without fundamental problems.

I suppose the difficulty is condemning selling sex with out also stigmatising the women who sell it.

I agree with you: sex shouldn't be a commodity.

And I think calling it " sex work " instead of prostitution is an attempt to sanitise and legitimise something which is ultimately degrading and dehumanising to the women who sell their bodies and the men who buy them.

Agree re sex work.

Hmm..I don't condemn women for selling sex for economic reasons. I do condemn happy hooker types if they go into sex work with no trauma, financial issues etc and then promote it as great. But how common is that? Same views on men who sell sex.

I'm not condemning the women who sell sex for economic reasons. But I do condemn a society that makes selling sex the only way some women have of surviving.

Yes, definitely agree on that. Otoh there's a grey area where a woman does have other ways (working in Sainsbury's, say) but she can earn more/spend more time with her kids selling sex.

I wouldn't condemn someone in that situation either, but it's not the same situation is having literally no other option for survival.

I know some of those 'sex work is work' women. They're middle class idiots who make money from OnlyFans or stripping in high class clubs. They're not desperate, and seem unable to comprehend that just because it makes them feel empowered to be used as wank fodder, doesn't mean that the majority of women in those industries aren't being exploited.

Anyway, the real problem is men. Criminalise the men. Nordic model.

I think that’s been an issue certainly, I stopped supporting Amnesty when they created a policy that pimping should be classed as sex work and decriminalised (didn’t realise about this til I just googled it: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/22/pimp-amnesty-prostitution-policy-sex-trade-decriminalise-brothel-keepers). No idea if that’s still where they stand now.

Very worrying. I will look into that.

Yes, I bet that explains a lot of it too. I don't think stripping or Onlyfans are good either and Onlyfans does involve sexual services to some degree.

But imo blurring the lines between women doing non-physical contact sex work like Onlyfans or stuff like stripping and women selling sex is very dangerous.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4geq7gk9ko
This is a really interesting news article about Operatio. Begonia in.Scotkand. The police using a really enlightened approach to the growing issue of brothels and exploitation of women in the sex trade.

I remember watching a documentary with a famous male actor exploring sex work, and at one point he did a debate between 'Belle de Jour' - that high class worker who wrote a book and only did it to pay her way through a PhD - and the amazing women who run a charity in Liverpool supporting women out of street work. I remember feeling so furious that this woman in a high flying career outside of sex work, was telling these charity workers how empowering it was, knowing they were dealing with women who had little other choice, or grew up in poverty, or had addictions. The kind of work they did was worlds apart, with 'Belle' having boundaries around what she'd do, and these women knowing that their clients take their life in their hands everytime they get into a strangers car. It is not the same! So no, I am not 'sex work positive'. I am sex positive, but think money erodes ideas of consent. I am sex worker positive, and want to see a safe future for all women who find themselves making difficult decisions. But filming yourself online from the safety of your flat is NOT the same as walking a cold street.