To think people who work from home don’t understand this?! And they’re paid more usually

[Ugriap]

I work in a job where I can’t work from home. I get that’s my choice but when I trained, working from home was not common. Now it is in a lot of places. I know I can re train but it’s not that easy!

I can’t just go to appointments during my lunch break. I can’t ever do this. So I have to book leave if I want to get my haircut or dental appointments. Or I go on a weekend so I’m basically having less free time.

A close friend is a high earner and she is always galavanting round during the day then catches up on her work in the evening at her convenience. I can’t understand why people like this don’t get that I don’t have this flexibility?! My time is so much more limited. I feel really isolated from the friendship group these days

WFH then!

Working from home doesn’t necessarily mean lots of flexibility and working in the workplace doesn’t necessarily mean no flexibility.

I can WFH and I can also work from hair appts, holiday….you name it, I can work from it.
If you want me to meet you midweek for lunch, I can.

But the flip side is my work does not stop at 5pm, I don’t have free weekends, I work for hours almost every evening and often 6am Saturday and/or Sunday until the rest of the house wakes up at 9 or 10. Flexibility means I can work more….and I do.

I am reasonably well paid, but I work very hard for it. However, if you happen to see me in a mid morning yoga class you’d probably think otherwise. I never work less than 70 hours a week and take one fully switched off holiday a year.

There are (usually) 2 sides to every story.

My daft counter to your daft idea:
More holiday for wfh workers so we can go away and actually switch off and get away from the office

I work hybrid and can’t just nipped out to get my hair cut etc on my 1 hour lunch. If I go to the dr I’ll make up the time(wfh makes that easier) and they ask that we try to get an appointment at the stat or end of the day. If I go to the hairdresser or optician it will be at the weekend or on a late night opening and I go to my dentist when they open late (usually on a Thursday they open to 6.30).

I choose to be in my office full time. My work husband works full time from home but comes in for meetings sometimes. He is a gallivanter too. Going to the gym, taking his mother to lunch etc. But he does work in the evenings. It secretly makes me mental.

It's not either or. I worked in the office for years in a job where, with agreement from my manager, I can leave early or start late for appointments, and make up the time another day. Or, I could take a 2-hr lunch break and again make up the time. People use this for dental appointments, or getting a broken boilet fixed, not haircuts!

Come covid we all worked from home, and mostly still do, and the same system continues. There is no "gallivanting around." People don't just finish at 3 to get their nails done.

OP people who WFH generally do understand this, this is one of the benefits of WFH.

Why do you have to take holiday to go to the dentist though? When I worked full time in the office it was understood you were allowed time off for medical and dental appointments. If you had to take them out of your holiday allowance you need to push back to your HR, that’s not normal ! Check your company policy on medical appointments in work hours (and dental appointments- bar for cosmetic dentistry) counts as medical.

Haircut, well yes, that’s a personal time thing. This is why most hairdressers are open on weekends and evenings.

If you are oddly wasting your holiday allowance on these things, this isn’t the fault of WFH but your poor choices.

It’s definitely the seniority of the role, not the WFH. I’ve always been allowed to take doctors appts etc on my lunch break but my company were quite good with things like that. The more senior I got though, the longer I felt I could take for things like that and not have to ask permission from anyone regardless of whether I was working from home or in the office.

Being more senior you tend to have tangible work to complete such as presentations for meetings etc so the view is generally that you just manage your own workload.

Life isn’t fair, but you’re setting yourself up for failure if this is the bar you’re judging fairness on. Employment contracts are a negotiation, it’s on you to advocate for yourself and push for certain terms like remote working if that’s what you want, or a higher salary.

plus is it really that surprising that someone senior is usually higher paid? Of course you get paid more if you have more responsibilities or a more senior title. Surely that is “fair”?

to be honest I struggle to find sympathy for your argument especially the waffle about you deserving more AL. When I work from home, I am actually working. Sometimes I miss parcels etc because I’m physically working/in a meeting presenting where it isn’t feasible to stop the meeting to accept deliveries. Let alone swan off to go to appointments when I’m supposed to be working. Not everyone who works from home is dossing nor are they basically on annual leave.

Exactly this - we must be available 9-5 to speak to clients.
We get a half an hour lunch break and that’s it. Also not a high earner maybe in line with the national average and we are made to work for it.
We are allowed time out for appointments only but if it’s more than an hour we have to owe the time back.

I wfh 3 days a week and can assure you I'm not gallivanting around getting my hair cut etc. Most gallivanting I do is nipping down to put a wash on. We still have to work!

she hasn't even specifically said that her friend doesn't understand she can't!

So yeah, v unreasonable. I wfh but of course I understand I have more flexibility than people who don't (albeit not as much as OP assumes we all do)- I'm not an idiot! That's literally one of the main reasons why I do it!

If you want a different job with different advantages, change jobs! You're not an ancient serf tied to the land. WFH isn't the only work benefit - some jobs pay more/less, some have good pensions and other benefits, some have lots of freebies, some have great colleagues, some have flexible hours, some have lots of AL, some are really interesting, etc...

Whining about it 'not being fair' you can't wfh is as ridiculous as me, someone who does wfh, complaining that a pilot gets to do more travelling as part of her job than me! Or that a brain surgeon gets paid more than me.

I think your friend has flexibility due to her senior position.

News flash princess. Life’s not fair.

I WFH but still have to work the same hours per week as office based colleagues.I don’t go “gallivanting” in work time! You sound jealous of your friend.

If you want to WFH then get a different job.

Your jealousy is beaming through.

If you don’t like your situation, change it.

She still has to do the same hours though, she just has flexibility.

If you can't retrain why don't you just work at getting promotions to become more senior? If you get high up enough you'll eventually be able to galivant too! Senior roles are super easy, no stress, its just about getting your hair and nails done all the time really.

Only on Mumsnet do I see adults whining “But it’s not faaaiiiir!!!” like this. Most people get past the age of 10 and realise life isn’t fair.

Hope everyone is now minded to pencil in some gallivanting leave

I do some of my work from home & i can't just pop out whenever i want.

Ive also spent periods working in offices with no issue having an opticians appointment at lunch etc.

If you happen to work in a location that meant you couldn't get to the those things within lunch hour thats no different to people who work from home & don't live in a town centre. I can't get my hair done on lunch when im wfh as there's no hairdresser close by but i can when in the office.

You sound really immature.

I see so many WFH bashing threads whether its here or Facebook. The "get back to the office" and "they never had WFH until Covid".

Many of us were forced to work from home during covid even if we didn't want to (I certainly didn't and would rather have gone into the office). While many were furloughed during covid those of us who could work from home had to and employers went out of their way to make sure homeworking was possible.

That's a problem your friend has, not a problem people who work from home have. Most of us who are fortunate enough to work from home were chained to desks in offices until five years ago, and many of us have also at various times worked in jobs where WFH wouldn't be possible. Many people who WFH are monitored through their equipment and aren't gallivanting off anywhere, and many have hybrid arrangements with mandated office days.

I have hybrid working and it's not the working from home that enables me to do anything during the day, it's having an amazingly flexible employer. Pre-covid I was struggling to fit my hours into my days due to the commute and a young child and I was looking at leaving. Post-covid I have less commute time and more flexibility and it's a godsend.

I don't know how you can mandate more annual leave considering there's a legal minimum and beyond that it's in the employer's gift.

I have hybrid and flexi time. Some tasks we have are time-sensitive. But yes I still have a lot of flexibility and I also love being at home, it’s been a major improvement to my physical, mental and domestic well-being. I don’t get to just bugger off for free for large chunks of the day though. Work towards changing your job if you want to wfh, rather than moaning about those of us who already do.