To think we can start a glamping business

[Glampinggirl]

We have always dreamed of running a glamping experience but it seems to me that the market is a bit oversaturated. However my family seem to think it’s a wonderful idea. We would need some investment with a cash injection from ourselves also. Would live onsite with our son and his family. Separate annexe for us. Could this work (yabu) or am I right in thinking there are already too many (yanbu). This would be in North Wales

This sounds like a very stressful way to get into debt. Where is the fun bit OP? Why has cleaning toilets and changing bedding been your dream for so long?

Even with the lower-level year-round camping idea, which does sound like a great starting point, OP is still going to have to build a loo/shower/kitchen block, with drainage, sewage, water etc. So that's about £100,000 at least.

i think getting planning permission and then getting the right knid of utilities set up could be extremely complicated and expensive

Bear in mind I doubt you will get many booknigs at all between November and March. And oustide high summer you may still struggle to fill away from the weekends.

OP, if you still want to do this, I think it would be a far, far better idea to buy an existing campsite.

And then ask yourself: "Why is this campsite for sale?"

It sounds like every other glamping site. What would make yours stand out? I know that makes me sound really bitchy but why would I choose yours over another one? Sell it to me!

I think you're allowed to use a field for pop up camping for 30 days a year, I've been to a few. They need to be farmers, who use a barn with pre-existing electricity to host most facilities, but also portable facilities, e.g. posh portaloo cabins and festival shower blocks.

But that would still mean choosing the property based on a slow-build business.

I am actually vaguely considering this sort of thing myself, but that's because we keep finding properties we like that have a random acre we'd have no purpose for.

As others have said, start with old-school camping, which requires nothing but flat grass on each pitch site. Plow the money into communal facilities:

Aim at the family market - provide a few bits of play equipment, particularly swings.
Spotlessly clean toilet and shower blocks, included in the price, with good hot water supply, cleaned and serviced several times a day. Have a separate block for unisex showers outside the male/female toilet rooms (good for families), as well as a couple of single sex showers in each of the toilet rooms.

Small laundry area with coin machines.

On-site shop for basic food, adult treats, treats for the kids to spend holiday pocket money on, and outdoor game toys (footballs, rounders bats, etc.). Aim to have your guest spend money on site instead of going elsewhere.

A breakfast café. It is amazing how many campers will pay for a bacon butty and hot coffee after crawling out of their tent, instead of firing up their own mini gas stoves.
Consider also an evening café - though running a proper café is a business venture in itself and a lot of hard work, needing lots of staff, it does mean an extra income stream on site. If not, get mobile food vans in on fixed nights and advertise the timetable. Provide a large covered seating area for the rainy days.

Fire pits for hire and seasoned wood for sale.

The site needs good views of open countryside. I went to a camp site which was a very large field, but in a wood completely surrounded by evergreen trees. Depressing and claustrophobic after 24 hours.

Have you ever seen Four in a Bed? There was an adult-only site featured on the programme which came in for criticism. I would recommend you watch some of these which feature glamping sites to get an idea of what does and doesn't work.

It certainly is possible - I’ve done it! Going well so far (not in N Wales though am in UK)
feel free to PM any questions 😊 x

Aim at the family market - provide a few bits of play equipment, particularly swings.

If you provide children's play equipment, you will have extra insurance responsibilities. You will need to declare it under your public liability insurance.

A breakfast café. It is amazing how many campers will pay for a bacon butty and hot coffee after crawling out of their tent, instead of firing up their own mini gas stoves.

If you provide breakfast, or any catering on site, you will need to register with the council as a food business, and undergo inspections from the FSA, and get your rating out of five.

Small laundry area with coin machines.

More expense. Washing machine(s), drier(s), plumbing...

Consider also an evening café - though running a proper café is a business venture in itself and a lot of hard work, needing lots of staff, it does mean an extra income stream on site.

It will not be an extra income stream.

Exactly; suggest you check out the issue for holiday cottage owners in Wales who need to let for 182 days to avoid second home council tax. A lot of them struggle even with a full-week letting model.

I think you sound delusional and the whole plan seems absolutely ridiculous 🫣

Are you familiar with the challenges facing the Welsh tourist industry at the moment?
The self catering industry, in particular is facing a bleak future in Wales.

Sounds such hard work. I’d rather buy a B&B. Think of the constant rain and mud.

I’d advise watching some fairly recent episodes of 4 In a Bed. You could look online and identify the episodes with glamping. There have been a few glamping sites on there. Some are what I’d genuinely call glamping but others that were horrors when it came to cleanliness and facilities.
Your season is going to be very short because of weather so you need to have a real USP to make it work.

My friend had one for about 10 years plus a few cottages. The glamping was incredibly hard work, cleaning, lugging bedding etc. helping people light wood burners, maintaining the site, renewing things that got broken, being present all through holidays and summer weekends and never having a break themselves. It did not look fun from the outside

people tend to do only a weekend glamping so there are more turnovers. They made v little profit on the glamping side. the cottages were far more profitable and less labour intensive

There have been a lot of messages posted already mainly against it. I have been around hospitality in various forms over my lifetime from a small child and would like to try to put some realism into the idea.

There was a massive boom in staycations due to COVID. That has now died. I have recently bought a motorhome and visited several lovely sites around the country out of season over the last 9 months. Most were virtually empty. These ranged from Caravan and Motorhome sites, their certified sites (where landowners can get a licensing arrangements to offer limited pitches) to up market premier camping sites.

If you do this business you need to clean the place every day. Even if only one yurt, one cabin etc is used. Plus you need to cut the grass weekly at least, hedges, flowers etc regularly.... rural areas may lack people who can be employed to do this.

You will need to live very near by, there is noway you can have a hands off approach. If you think you could employ a manager, they will want paying...so at least at a minimum £26,500 will need to be earned a year just to pay them unless you give them housing....plus national insurance contributions plus setting up a pension scheme.

You're also dealing with the general public, who will give you a trip advisor review of 1 if it rains all week.

So it boils down to: are you prepared to work 52 weeks a year. Or more realistically not have any time off during the summer and peak times? Can you cut hedges and mow grass and be prepared to do it whatever the weather? Do you want to clean toilets every day? How are you with dealing with complaints, are you thick skinned enough to accept something you love might not be seen that way by others?

I imagine you would need planning permission from the local council.

It will largely come down to area op. Where in Wales....if it's walking distance to a holiday beach with nearby decent cafes, pubs and bakeries/ coffee/ groceries then it would definitely be a goer. If it's the back of beyond with no amenities close by you may have a much narrower pool of prospective customers. One thing I would advise if you do go for it is installing EV chargers to future proof.

Glamping is expensive to set up and very niche.

But, if you’ve got the funds, and happy to take the risk, then go fo it.

I would start with 55% occupancy for 1/3 of the year. Your figures will look much worse then. There is no way you will have 55% occupancy year round

The thing is, it wouldn't "definitely be a goer" in the former location at all - it depends on the weather, how well OP markets herself and all kinds of other things.

I’ve just come on to say someone I know bought a plot of land with some ideas similar to yours. They spent a fortune laying groundworks etc and then ran out of money and can’t sell the land.

Do you live in Wales and/or are any of you Welsh? North Wales is massively Welsh speaking and you will absolutely need to learn it to properly live there, because, if you've done even basic research, you would know how many locals make up the numbers in tourism. And more importantly, how hard it is to integrate without the language. And how proud people are of their culture.

Having (grand)kids? of school age, they will most likely also need to immediately start to learn Welsh, as a huge percentage of schools are Welsh-medium. Have you looked at further educational and job prospects for your grandkids growing up there? It's, generalising, not good. They probably wouldn't want to work at the campsite and also wouldn't have the freedom to go and do much at the weekends if you're all busy, which could become a point of serious friction between you all. Not to even mention the men trying to work full time as well (they will inevitably be roped in on the campsite, by necessity). Issues galore there too.

Local planning permission is a nightmare. That will probably end your dream at hurdle one, tbf. The new council tax rules/minimum occupancy/tourist tax/general death of the market/incompetence and purposeful obfuscation from planners will all fuck you, hard. ...especially if you're not Welsh. People will moan at this statement but it's true. Don't lose your pension, is all I'm saying.

Tradesmen are basically impossible to pin down in North Wales, the cost of building materials and labour are tenfold what it all was pre-covid, and again tradesmen will prioritise Welsh speaking jobs... Rightly or wrongly. As will literally anyone else you deal with (for supplies, cleaning staff, whatever). Your set up costs will be absolutely shocking, once it's all laid out, from ground work, cabins, parking area, utilities being put in, insurance, stock and septic tank pumping and general maintenance and and and...

The weather is very wet and shit and eats away at even expensive wooden cabins. Occupancy could/will be for a small portion of the year only.

if you and DIL are the only people keeping it running including constant year round maintenance, well, I hope you're hardy. And get on exceptionally well. And are not near a river or any form of water (hint, everywhere has a stream nearby and may or may not flood lol). The wind is shocking . The drive from England puts people off. Did I mention the rain? 😂

Sorry to be so negative. But the glamping scene is a money pit in rven slightly adverse circumstances, and legislation and so on in North Wales is increasingly pointing against profit. Put chatGPT down and seek some more real advice!

The more you tell us, OP, the more it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen!

You have school age grandchildren so, as a minimum, you'll be in your 50s, maybe older. So I can guarantee that you won't want the 24/7 hassle of wrangling guests, suppliers, contractors, accountants etc etc for years and years. What will your son and DIL do when you decide you want to retire? Or (and sorry to be so upfront) you suffer serious illness?
You have to have contingency plans to cover death, illness, divorce and simple fallouts...... you think none of them will happen, but what if?