Work trip to USA

[Wonderbug81]

I'm in a senior role and there's talk of a work trip to US this year. For context I've been to the US multiple times and even lived in NYC for a year a long time ago.

However I'm British Asian and I don't want to go - it's a very different place to the one I lived in.

At the moment it's not a firmed up plan but we'll be going to number of places (not just the more left wing cities) and I want to be ready to discuss it when the time comes.

DH went to the US for work last month. He said if he hadn’t
a) cleared immigration first by travelling through Dublin, and
b) looked 100% white,
he’d have seriously considered not going.

His main concern was being detained for spurious reasons at the airport more than the unrest on the streets, the stories of actual US citizens disappearing into detention centres for months because their travel documents were questioned are terrifying.

FGS I travel in and out of the US for work. Just got back. Immigration was the same as it’s always been. If you have an ESTA it’s fine, my sister lives there too so I am in and out with the DC for holidays etc The hysteria on here is ridiculous.

Are you white caucasian with an English/American sounding name?

Did you read that the OP is not white and has an Islamic sounding name?

Thank you, and yes it is despicable and so hard to believe that this is what it has come to.

I personally fully believe in the right to protest and if I was there now, I would be protesting, bc what this administration and its untrained and uneducated force of goons are doing is horrible. But that is besides the point. If you are in a state with more ice presence then you will probably be scared walking anywhere alone, just like I would be, and that's a horrible fear to have.

Are there other non white people going as part of this group who you could talk to? I imagine they would be feeling the same as you. That might be a place to start, bc if this thread is any indication, the rest just don't get it, which may be valid, I don't know. My husband didn't fully understand the fear I had last time we were there, solely bc he's never lived it.

It's shocking how some people can't see how this makes a difference in the current climate.

Eh? A couple of million plus use the Tube every day, what are on you on about?

It's like when people say they don't want to visit London because of knife crime or NYC after the terrorists attacks. What we see on the news doesn't represent everyday life.

As long as visitors have their correct documentation then just do it and follow travel advice. Although tbh unnecessary work trips to another continent to do anything that can be done remotely would seem a waste of everyone's time not to mention carbon footprint issues.

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Thank you. Yes it's a Southern state with increased ICE presence.

Despite working in London my company is extremely undiverse so there's no one I can talk to. It's helpful to get different perspectives here from - as you say - people who have experience and/or at least an understanding of the challenges.

As soon as you open your mouth as a Brit, they'll know! They're not interested in tourists on the visa waiver. They're after undocumented immigrants who have a serious criminal record in their home countries or the US, or ones who have simply entered illegally and made a whole life in the States. (I agree with getting rid of the criminals, but I think the good ones who work hard and pay taxes and have been here forever should be left alone.)

Long story short, they are not after British tourists!

Agree with someone who said the news doesn't represent daily life. I've been to the US recently. It was totally fine. You'd never know anything was wrong.

If they can't tell a mobile phone from a gun, I'm not sure I'd want to rely on their ability to make judgements.

Oh well, all I can say is that I was walking around there recently, and I'm still in one piece!

My friend (white, but with big beard) was grilled for 6h a few weeks ago due to having some Arabic stamps in his passport (has previously been to Dubai and Oman). He said it was a really intimidating experience where he honestly thought he would end up being arrested for having visited two places in the middle east and having a beard. Others I know with professional knowledge have told us to avoid going there unless necessary. Such a worry.

What is the problem with people being back on the buses next day? What exactly is your point?

What does "land of the free" mean?

Ok ....

your job is to risk assess the UK and London as a work zone into which you are sending a work visitor to.

You need to
• document them for border control
• land them
• house them
• feed them
• transport them to/from the work place and
• work out if the employee should be allowed out and about during the downtime

How do you work out how safe the work zone is?
Are you going to benchmark that work zone against another work zone?

Now pick a major US city in "the South" and work out if the risks are the same.

If you refuse to go, you will be undermining your standing within the company. That said, there are I'm sure lots of other keen candidates for that next promotion.

You haven’t answered my question. I’ve been asking what makes you think London public transport isn’t safe, given millions of people use it daily and it had one very serious incident - only affecting some of it - in 200+ years of service?

I think London transport use would certainly pass a company risk assessment - don’t you?

Or would you rather company money paid for private taxis for your workers because you don’t think London transport is safe?

So you have worked out that tfl is likely to be safe. Yet is still has risks terror attacts police actions crime events including hate crimes.

The OP makes the same decisions every day when going into the office.

What the OP cant work out is how safe the travel location will be the OP needs more data.

I've travelled to the States with a Saudi visa in my passport. Previously, I went with multiple UAE, Saudi, Omani, Qatari and Kuwaiti visas and entry stamps. Didn't prompt any questions at the port of entry.

Attacking them? With whistles?
Because that car was not used as a weapon, and that gun wasn't legal and not used

I think the media we are consuming is fed to us to create fear and panic, so no I wouldn’t let it change my plans.

For me this is a simple assessment of risk/likelihood and consequences.

Having lived and work in the US I would say that the likelihood of something going wrong is pretty low. But that the risk increases if you’re not white, not middle class and not middle aged. The risk further increases if you are well travelled and have stamps in your passport form places the US doesn’t like.

On the consequences front, for a US citizen the consequences of a wrongful arrest or denied entry, while inconvenient, are short lived. For a non US citizen who is not protected by most of the rights set out in the US constitution the consequences of being stopped / pulled off the streets or denied entry are potentially a lot more serious. If you’re not white then they could be live changing.

So I’d make my assessment on whether to travel based on where I sat on that risk curve. Because I can control that, but I can’t control the consequences if the worst happens. If you are deemed as in the country illegally for whatever reasons you have almost no rights. I wouldn’t let the fact that it was a work or vacation trip make any difference;

if anything the risk going on a business trip is higher because you only need one agent to mis-interpret the reason for your trip as carrying out actual work rather than attending a meeting or conference to be in a whole world of visa pain. An ESTA wouldn’t cover you for actual work, but would a meeting or conference. Again, the risk is multiplied if you have any if the other factors mentioned above.

Those are my thought, as a recently retired professional who did for a while hold a green card and who has lived / worked in many countries over my working life. I know some EU countries do advise extra care when travelling to the US, so any reasonable employer should recognise if any of its staff are at higher risk.

This is such a well considered response. Thank you.