To think that SATS are more important than people let on?

[Inthehottub]

On mumsnet I always find that the general consensus is that SATS aren’t important.

Once upon a time I would have agreed.

However, now I’ve experienced having a child go through secondary school and GCSEs, I would say that SATS results are very important.

Our experience was that the SATS results determine which sets the child goes into in secondary school and also the GCSE predicted grades. I know that there are other assessments too, but SATS are a large part of it.

Our experience of secondary school was also that the ‘top set’ kids get absolutely everything thrown at getting them those top grades. I was also told by teachers and pupils alike that the lower sets tend to have more disruptive children so it’s harder for the quieter less able kids to work their way up out of the bottom sets.

Obviously that’s only my experience having had two go through secondary school and one now approaching sats.

Interested to know what others think.

Yabu - SATS are not important
Yanbu - they are very important

Thank you for articulating that so clearly.

All of that was my experience and was openly admitted to me by teachers.

My DCs secondary school started in mixed sets for year 7 and then were assessed and put into sets. It was nothing to do with SATS. It may just be her school, I don't know, but I'm sure secondary schools would be interested in the teacher assessments from year 6 as well as the SATs.

Used all the way through secondary at our school for setting, expected grades, expected improvement. SATs are used as a baseline to measure improvement. Quoted on every school report. I don’t think there’s much point studying for them though.

I never had a clue what the children's SAT scores were in any of the secondary schools that I worked in. They all had to sit a computer adaptive test in Yr 7 that measured their underlying ability and those were used to measure progress and predict grades.

I dimly remember being put in sets for maths/science the second term of Y7, and for other subjects not until Y8. SATS do not appear to have been a major factor, despite the massive amount of emphasis that was put on them in Y6.

When my two DC were at the local secondary, the school did CAT in Y7. They used to tell me, the CAT results predicted the exam grades at GCSE, and DC should get the top grades. (They did) They never mentioned the Y6 SATs to me, with regard to DC.

DS did SATs in Y8 for English, maths and science. He was the only one in his year to get Level 8 in science. While he got all A*s and As at GCSE, he didn’t do so well in the three sciences at A level.

Data aside, a lot of children find that having sat thier SATs and survived, it gives them that a bit of resilience for the gcses.

The two groups that missed thier sats seem to be lacking that context of it will be ok in the end. Just anecdotally from governor meetings I've sat in at a few secondaries.

What year did your child leave?

I think most people realise they have some importance. But my ds1 is in y6 and the pressure on them is immense, so people say they aren’t important to try and relieve some pressure on the kids but also themselves.

Our school has bands eg x,y,z and within each band there are typically 4 sets. The top set in each band is always the biggest, usually around 30 but can be as high as 34. The bottom set is always the smallest, as low as 10 to compensate for both the additional needs of this group but also a greater tendency for behavioural issues. The middle sets have numbers somewhere inbetween. It doesn’t always follow though that behaviour gets worse as you go down - we’ve had lovely bottom sets with high needs but good behaviour, and a few rotten apples in the top sets who spoil it for everyone else and it’s harder for the teacher to keep control and identify who’s causing the issues due to the size of the class. So based on that I would say YABU. There are plenty of opportunities to move up or down a set if the teachers agree that would be better and this does happen regularly. Also, behavioural clashes or bad alliances between students in the same class can be managed by moving the troublemaker to the same set in a different band. This is less common than set changes within the band but does happen.
At our school they do a shake up of sets at the end of year 9 anyway before starting the GCSE content and cream off a ‘true’ top set, moving them all into the same band. My DC found this an improvement on the first 3 years as it got rid of the ‘bad apples’.

I wish I hadn’t read this 😭

what happens if a child arrives in year 7 that hasn't done SATS then? how do they measure improvement and determine sets for them?

CAT4 testing/estimates from the big edudata companies/professional judgement. Had to do it last year, doing it this year, do it every year for privately educated, EHE and new to the country kids.

Same way that primaries won't have a government decreed target for those who didn't have or sit KS1 SATs will do.

The government/FFT uses them to form the flight path for gcse predicted grades

Same here at our secondary. Use as a benchline throughout

This is exactly what happens… and that spreadsheet of kids and their grades/interventions/sets/progress or lack of it is discussed/interrogated/pored over at many senior leadership meetings to the point of ridiculousness.

I had one leave year 11 in 2023 and one in 2024.

In all of my years of teaching Secondary school, SATs have never been anything other than an absolute menace. The majority of results wildly overestimate a child’s actual ability. Many children come to us having clearly had some kind of help with the paper (either that or they forgot everything the second they completed the paper). We test as soon as they come into year 7 and children move up and down sets as they move through the school. For various reasons, my own daughter will not sit her SATs. If it were down to me I would scrap them!

Well, they aren’t always. Lots of schools assess the children within a few weeks of entering Year 7.
Those results are the ones used.
Setting comes later.

My ds' senior school didn't use SATs, preferring to reassess each child as they joined.

The senior school didn't use sets either.

Your sons secondary school did use SATs for lots of things - benchmarking, progress measures, target pupils etc etc - they just didn’t tell you.

Same thing applies for EYFS scores, Phonics screening, KS1 tests (when mandatory), yr 4 times table check and ks2 SATs - it’s about seeing who “has” to pass the next stage/thing.

They are in a system from 4 yrs old - and schools are held accountable for getting or not getting them to the next pass in the next test - you just didn’t know it.

My kids school move sets at least once a term. DS year 7 has already moved up in maths

My kids school test then when they first go in. Like others have said, some kids get so much help to pass sats that it’s not properly representative

Unless a pandemic happens and they become the only thing teachers can base final grades on in absence of exams…

true story and not that long ago

university admissions teams also look at predicted grades

SATSshoukd measure how the school is performing but really it is now used to set the child and predict their academic success

My son didnt even take SATS due to covid.
They all moved up and down sets like yo yos tbh.

He was lower set English until 2 teachers left and they couldn't replace them so all capabilities were bunged in together.

Its a load of hype about nothing.

We didn't base final grades on SATs. In the first year, they were based on the evidence we already had. The following year they were based on internally set exams.

At no point did we look at SATs marks.