Are these football kids U or not?

[singthing]

There is a small green space near me, with some lovely big old trees and nice benches to sit on - i.e. it was designed to be used by the public like a park.

In the past year, almost all the open space has been used as a football pitch seemingly every non-raining daylight moment. A couple of goals (domestic ones, not FA standard!) have been left there full time, and the grass has been completely churned up into a mudbath/dustbowl, depending on the weather. Other people can't sit on the benches because they are liable to get a ball to the head at any minute, and the issue with the grass too. Plus the games can get quite raucous, without anywhere to move away from the noise.

BUT it means that 4-6 kids (estimate ages around 8-10) are active and playing outside, not sat indoors on phones or watching tv or whatever. All the houses directly nearby, where the boys likely live, do have private gardens, albeit smaller than this "park". For completeness, there are bigger parks within walking distance (but out of sight from the houses), plus a forest and massive park a short drive away

WIBU? For the purposes of the poll:
YABU: The kids should be encouraged to play out, let them carry on.
YANBU: The kids should not have taken over the park, it is for everyone

I don’t think you can necessarily expect the kids not to use it for football unless it’s explicitly prohibited. Presumably there’s no ‘No ball games’ sign or similar? If not, I think it’s fair game (pun intended)

To play devil's advocate, there isn't a sign saying no bonfires/paddling pools/airguns (etc) either, but you wouldn't reasonably expect to do any of those in a public facility.

Even if ball games are not specifically prohibited, what about the damage that has been caused, or that other people can realistically now not use a public place?

(I don't use it, I have a lovely back garden of my own, but there are plenty of people who might want to)

Children should be free to play football as they wish. They should not, however, play in such a way that their balls are likely to hit people sitting on benches, and if they are doing this, I'd suggest speaking to them/their parents.

Surely these children are at school for a large proportion of daylight moments, and in not that many years will be doing something else anyway.

Forest and park a short drive away is irrelevant, kids can’t drive. Playing out near your home is what childhood is about.

Very fair point about school hours, but then many people are also at work then too.

The houses nearby tend to be starter homes and moving vans are not uncommon sights so I suspect the supply of fresh children won't run out any time soon. But this is definitely the first year in about 20 I have noticed such excessive use and damage. I used to see other children generally running round and playing there, sometimes with parents on benches, but not in a long while.

I do see your point and understand your frustration but I do fall into the “let the kids play” camp. It is too easy for kids to stay home on screens these days. If a small patch of grass near where they live is incentivising them to get out and do something active, I’m all for it.

Surely if there are other parks nearby, the other people who want to sit on the benches could walk to them..?

But is damaging it and making it effectively unusable for others part of that? I did also say there are some other bigger parks a walk away too.

I see where you are coming from but I think it is generally accepted that kids play football in parks (which is why they put signs up to stop them sometimes). Presumably they have wrecked some of the grass but not all of it? ie. You could take a stroll around the outside even if walking through the middle would leave you with muddy shoes?

I agree that games should be played considerately and efforts made not to hit passers by etc. I can see why some people might be annoyed but kids don’t have many places to play and at least they aren’t hanging around getting up to no good.

Why can't all these people who want to sit on benches
(which you can still do near kids playing football)

a) do that in the nearby park
b) do that in their own garden
c) do that when the kids are at school ?

YABVU

Also a very good point (other people using the other parks), but there are probably 15-20 houses directly surrounding it, with more in adjoining closes and side roads. All of them should have to go elsewhere?

(I am one road further back, but I go past it very frequently. Every time I do, I wonder what the non-football fans or parents of smaller kids or childfree think. So I did next best thing and put it to MN Jury!)

I actually think football can be quite a problem, as it does dominate spaces, whether in schools or in situations like this. It excludes kids who don't play football and they often have nowhere else to go. It also tends to get quite competitive at quite a young age which excludes others from 'just having a go' or a more social kick about. I heard the national women's football team on the radio advocating for kick about spaces and girls football spaces in playgrounds to let these other groups in on the action. I also heard and read some interesting articles about park design to better suit the types of uses girls and women in particular would put it to, including considering things like surveillance, position of seating for chatting, and yes, design to contain football away from some areas. Not sure it answers your question but I thought it was interesting! Is there anything you could do to section an end off for not-football?

It doesn’t sound unusable, it sounds like the grass is imperfect and the park is busy at times.

first come, first served. If someone is already sitting on the bench/es then the kids shouldn't start playing if there's not enough space to do so without hitting someone. Same as if there was already someone sunbathing in the middle of it, or another group of kids playing a different game.

However same applies, if kids are playing football then it would be weird to set up and start sunbathing/having a picnic in the middle of their impromptu pitch.

I don't think you can blame them for the earth being 'churned up' - everywhere is just a mud bath at the moment - parks should be able to withstand people walking/running about in them, if not they're poorly designed.

I live in an estate with a little green space in the middle. My son and his neighbour friends play there a lot - not usually football as that’s not their thing (despite them all being on a team) but they get out their archery sets and basketballs and play some elaborate game that seems to involve everyone hitting each other with sticks. My daughter goes out there and does gymnastics. It’s lovely.

however - they don’t ruin anything and they aren’t out all hours of the day and night. Every now and again this one particular neighbour will suggest a no ball game sign and gets voted down each time. So I think on the whole the more children are playing out, the better

There’s a park with goals across the (busy) road but that’s meaningless as someone would have to take them there, stand around and take them back. When they’re in the green we can all hear them and keep an eye out and get on with work or cooking or whatever.

To give a bit more context to the "park" - it is small. It could easily be the back garden of a decent size house. It was just a bit of land they couldn't cut the trees down and couldn't fit housing into I expect.

It's very roughly eggshaped, with large trees at the pointier end, and the football then takes up the majority of the wider end. - this part is now just mud end to end The benches are also at the wider end, facing towards the trees, so they are close to the "pitch"

Well said. I’m all for encouraging kids to play out, but football can completely take over and exclude other users of green spaces. What about the kids who want to practice cart-wheeling, or a dance routine, or throwing a frisbee, or laying out a picnic blanket out, or families with younger toddlers wanting to gently kick a ball around or just play, or fly a kite, or…well you get the idea. Ultimately it’s ideally for councils to ensure there are appropriate spaces for people to do all these things, and understanding how football can dominate a space and often spoil the ground should lead them to establish proper places for it to be played which don’t the exclude all other park users. Maybe an email to a local councillor would help?

Also a very good point (other people using the other parks), but there are probably 15-20 houses directly surrounding it, with more in adjoining closes and side roads. All of them should have to go elsewhere?

No, they can still sit on the benches when they kids are playing
They can also sit on the benches when the kids are at school

But you said all of the houses have gardens. If you like to just sit in the sunshine, then you will have room to do that in your garden, whereas they won't have room for a match with the neighbouring kids in their gardens.

Plus, these adults presumably don't need to be within sight of their parents, like 8 year olds probably do.

So kids who like football shouldn't play it in public or at school in case there are other kids who don't want to play? Football is amazing for bringing kids together from all walks of life. You could argue Tennis, rugby, frisbee all dominate spaces. In a park it's first come first served, but for some reason there seems to be a lot on Mumsnet who hate football in particular.
Why should the OP section a non football end off, they have said they don't even use the area. Literally offended on other people's behalf.

I haven't said they shouldn't play it.

It sounds idyllic for the kids - a lovely place to grow up . We had similar near our first house but it was so covered in dog pooh the kids couldn’t play on it .

I get your point , but it’s good to see kids play - they have to grow up too fast

You made me think - I don't recall seeing any girls in there for months and months, and I know there are many living nearby because I see them walking to/from school! Same for smaller children as I mentioned earlier too.

I don't use the space, but I do think the parents should take some responsibility for their children's activities not taking over and/or damaging the ground so much, and I do think the goals should be moved to the side when not actively being used to acknowledge it is a public space not their private pitch.

I guess people who do live right by it would be afraid of being labelled the local child-hater equivalent of YABVVU (as in this thread), if they asked for changes or councillor action.

EDITED TO ADD: I am not "offended" in the least, no idea where that came from? As I said in a pp, I see it very frequently and wondered what MN would think. I hoped my OP was clear enough where I put both sides of the argument as well. But if you want to rage at me, go for it.

This is just such an odd thing for you to be bothered enough to start a thread about.

If you want to go and do some cartwheels, then go and do some cartwheels. No-one is stopping you.

The fact that someone has kindly left some goalposts there for anyone to use when they play out doesn't stop someone else throwing a frisbee, or taking their cricket bat and stumps out there.

I’d be over the moon that children had yet another place to play.

There is all types of pointless bollocks posted on here every single day. That doesn't mean I am "bothered" by it any more than you were "bothered" to reply about it. It's just chat on stuff we see in our lives, no big drama conspiracy

And it wasn't me who mentioned cartwheels either. Although I doubt I could do one anymore!

I hate football, but even I would say let the kids play. They're members of the public using a public amenity. Presumably, if they got there and someone else was already using the space, they would play elsewhere. If no-one else is using, then it's first come first served. You can't stop them using it just incase someone else wants to, especially as you don't even want to use it yourself.

I also think adults or younger children that would be accompanied by and adult wherever they go, are far more able to go to the nearby bigger park. If these kids are 8-10, they might not be old enough to go that far alone, so for them it's either play within sight of the house (possibly with someone checking out of window) or don't play out at all.