To think you can never get rid of hypervigilance

[MargoLivebetter]

I've been pondering this a great deal. I finished a 4 year relationship at the end of last summer and I've been reflecting on it and trying to learn from it.

I had an abusive childhood and went on to have abusive relationships and then an abusive marriage (which I have long since exited). I've been diagnosed with both PTSD and CPTSD. I had some excellent therapy, that was transformational. BUT I do wonder whether there are some behaviours that are so hard-wired into our psyche that we never truly get rid of them.

I am hypervigilant. When I was considering whether or not my most recent relationship was abusive, I found myself thinking was he abusive or was I too hypervigilant?

I am unable to not read people, scan their faces, spot micro-reactions and constantly analyse them. I do it in all scenarios, work, social, home, family, friends, even in the gym etc. It is onerous, tiring, frustrating and I don't enjoy any aspect of it, but I also do not know how not to do it. It is like breathing in and out for me. It is so instinctual that I don't even realise I am doing it, but I am constantly. When I do catch myself, I have no idea how not to do it. It feels like I'm asking myself not to see things that are in front of me. I'm in my mid-50s and my therapist said that given my background, I have probably been doing this in rudimentary form since before I have memories. So, this isn't a new thing, or something I started doing as an adult, it is over 50 years of enduring behaviour.

So, are there any others out there with hypervigilance who have managed to switch it off? Or any psychotherapists who know if it is even possible to do that?

Short answer: I don't think it's possible.
Longer answer: Why would you want to switch it off? I'm the same as you, in my mind 50s with a heap tonne of trauma in my childhood, going back to early years. The hypervigilance is exhausting, but I don't know how not to do it. It's not conscious. I get blasts of somatic empathy too. I have to factor in some time every week to be completely alone, otherwise I start climbing the walls with it. On the other hand, I always feel that the majority of other people seem to be walking around with their eyes shut. So I've started to think about it like a superpower.

For me, it’s the one part of my PTSD that I don’t think will ever leave me. And I’m okay with that to some extent; I suspect that I might, in part, cling to it as it gives me a sense of control (even if I know that I’m not in control of it).

@BrokenButNotFinished that's an interesting perspective. You sound like you have very similar issues. I need quite a lot of alone time too, so that my mind can rest.

You are right it is like a superpower and it is undoubtedly hugely useful. My colleagues value my insights from meetings. But for me it means that even the simplest of interactions is way more tiring than it needs to be and it leads to very annoying behaviours on my part. Unconsciously, I immediately adapt to the other person or the situation. This is why I ended up questioning whether my ex-P was abusive or whether I was over-scanning, over-analysing and over-adapting to him.

@mynameiscalypso yes, I think it is definitely a control thing. For me it is the way I try to be safe with other people.

So after a difficult childhood I struggled with this as well and tried all sorts to move on from it. However it was after getting botox for severe migraine (something that likely was triggered at least in part by my hyper vigilance) that I gradually noticed an improvement. You have to get the glabellar / frown muscles done as this stops the feedback between your facial muscles and the amygdala i.e. the emergency warning centre in the brain.

It doesn't make you insensitive it just sort of dampens down the high alert stress state over time so that your at more of a normal level. Might be worth a shot or at least looking in to?

I don’t do it when I’m alone in my house with my cats.

so I use that as rest time.

Wow, @navystrap I'm gobsmacked by that revelation. Certainly worth thinking about.

Yes, @Octavia64 that makes sense. When I retire I want to get a dog. I love animals.

@MargoLivebetter Yeah its wild there is an increasing body of research about it, I had no idea until I noticed a change in myself.

I think it's possible, but admittedly it's not something I've managed to achieve yet. I'm seeing a somatic therapist, and working with her has made me far more aware of the many things I do automatically (abusive childhood, unattuned parents, CSA) -- not just hypervigilance, but shallow breathing, clenched jaw, making myself small, defensive posture, capacity to ignore bodily cues like hunger and tiredness until they're screaming etc etc. I'm in my 50s too, and have been doing these things since early childhood, but working very hard in therapy is making me aware of them. Awareness is the first step to undoing. And it's difficult, I won't lie. But I am relearning how to breathe, and to ground myself in something other than 'What is that flicker of expression on the other person's face saying? Am I safe?'

So you might need something other than talking therapy.

@Cinquefoils you are right awareness is not enough. I've been aware for a long time but the undoing seems beyond me.

It may need something like CBT or I was even wondering about hypnotherapy.

After lots of therapy to help control my stress levels I now think it’s my super power. I can quickly judge character which enables me to form relationships in work quickly, which is perfect for my job. I have no difficulties in reading people in teams meetings which I think a lot of less vigilant people struggle with. I find an online meeting no different to an in person one. I can also spot a wrong un a mile off. I’m easily startled so don’t like anyone walking behind me but apart from needing some down time every now and again I manage really well. I have a very understanding DH and DCs who know to back off of I say I need 10 minutes to myself. I think if you can get the stress off of under control it’s not a problem. I do a lot of meditation 🤣

I used to wonder why people couldn't see the things I did. (Like, for instance, that really popular man in a group or organisation who everybody thinks is just a loveable maverick... but you realise that he's a bully or a predator who flies under the radar because he picks on the lone one, the small one, the one with no social capital, on the edge - so there's no come back for him.) Now I realise that they don't see because they literally aren't trained for this.

I try not to let it change too much about my behaviour in the ordinary run of things. If I get a blast of someone else's pain, it doesn't have to become my responsibility. Or if I need to remove myself, I will do so. I have certain workarounds: I try, for instance, never to be the first one in a venue and therefore responsible for picking a table - because I already know where the doors are and which way they open, but if someone else makes the decision, I don't have to make the calculation over where is 'safe'. I'll just roll with it.

I hadn't heard about the Botox. I'm not sure I'd do it though.

Ah, yes - the exaggerated startle response!!
💥😱💥

If you can find a good somatic therapist, that's what I'd recommend. I did try EMDR, but didn't particularly get on with it, though my current therapist occasionally uses it along with other things.

I don't think CBT would work at all.

(And yes to the violent startle reflex! Though I prefer to choose the table or place at a table, and will choose the one with my back to the wall but which also has a clear escape route -- I absolutely cannot eat in a restaurant with my back to the room.)

That's what I WANT to do in a restaurant @Cinquefoils but I let it go. 😊

You're more graceful than I am, @BrokenButNotFinished -- I stop short of asking someone who's already seated to move, but I recognise that I will be a much nicer and easier person to have dinner with if I can sit where I feel safe. (Which is something I was completely unaware of till quite recently. I chose a seat, but couldn't have told you the grounds on which I chose it...)

I find someone jostling past the back of my chair, even if I know perfectly well that it's just a friendly waiter, whom I know, in a busy restaurant with closely-packed table, unbelievably activating!

The bloody startle reflex is also very annoying! I hate the surge of adrenalin that pulses through you and the phenomenal effort it takes for me not to not raise my hands above my head - when someone has just dropped a mug in the staff kitchen! (As in hands up to cover my head, not as in 'stick em up or your dead' Western styel!)

My cunning tactic in restaurants or other similar venues, is I always claim that I have slight hearing difficulties and so need my back to the wall to help block surrounding sound - which means I can always face outwards. I used to love clubbing when I was younger, because the sensory overload was so total, I couldn't scan, analyse and could get totally lost in the moment. It was bliss!!!

So many useful perspectives here - thank you all. I will look into somatic therapy. I am definitely too adaptive in my responses. In close relationships, I am looking to mood manage the other person, often before they even know what mood they are in themselves. That isn't helpful to me or them!

Yep, me too @Cinquefoils - but I know it's just the waiter and I will not let the people (person) who made me like this win. I will live and I will live well. The waiter never hurt me, but the person who should have been my safest place did. I'm not afraid of the waiter and I'm not afraid of that person either.

And let's face it: if the waiter WAS dodgy, I'd already know... 😆

This it is in built and wired in my dna I listen to it. I go into a room and I notice the exits and how far away they are - and I sit with the exits nearby. I watch body language and walk away from any friendship or relationship because I listen to my gut. I hear it. I will say to my husband watch that car give him loads of room before the car does anything - it’s an extra sense and I embrace it.

Completely agree. I’ve done 15 years of “inner work” to overcome childhood trauma. I am much, much better, but I still have hypervigilance and what I call ‘background anxiety’ that I believe will never fully go away.

I also have ASC and ADHD and PTSD and I think it has saved my life multiple times I was able to dissociate during traumas - and I do feel like sensory overload or a meltdown was actually my way of dealing with acute trauma

I think awareness is really important to identify the physical reactions as well the emotional. I find yoga and a focus on breathing really helps (guess that’s a kind of somatic therapy).

I also find being in nature, walking/being with my dog, exercise (swimming/cold water swimming) and watching tv where I just switch off. Things that bring you in the moment - maybe start clubbing again @MargoLivebetter ?! I think factoring downtime in between social and work events/activities. Time to just be off duty whilst practising techniques that help.

Can you find a therapist who also teaches yoga or mindfulness? They might be able to bring some breathing techniques or body sweetness into your sessions.

Ah I've found my people on this thread :)

I also chose the seat with my back to a wall (though when I'm with someone else who's traumatised there's the awkward "you first" "no you first" negotiation).

I read subtle shifts in people's emotions, though don't always interpret them correctly (for example I tend to assume they're angry at me, when they might be angry about something unrelated). It's often useful, I think it helps me be a good judge of people, but it can be annoying for others in a close relationship.

Car horns are the worst for the adrenaline rush, really make me on edge, even if the hooting has nothing to do with me.

@Snowisfalling24 I find exercise very helpful too. I do yoga, pilates, swimming and lots of walking and find them all very calming. I can do mindfulness all by myself (or in a class) very well, but as soon as I'm with anyone else in a normal environment, I'm gone again!!!!

@ManchesterGirl2 I'm like you too. I can register other people's emotions but I also don't always know where it is directed or what it actually means for the other person. Even though I'm intuitive and vigilant, I am not actually a mind reader!

I feel like this too. I suffered no childhood trauma to speak of (apart from the sudden death of my grandad when I was 4 which I think has hard wired something into my brain). I’m hyper vigilant and it wears me out. I look at my husband who is oblivious to trivial matters that have no impact on him and I think “how”??? I can judge someone’s character very quickly. I can’t exactly explain how but it’s to do with the eyes and a certain upturn of the mouth. I’m astonished when others warn to that kind of person. Can they not see what I’m seeing? Can you not “see” a person and their motives? My best time is spent alone. Loud sudden noises send me into an inner meltdown. My worst “need” is having to be at the door watching as a family member leaves. I have to remember them leaving in case it’s the last time. (I hope this is all what you mean about hyper vigilance) x

My hypervigilance relates to driving - so slightly different to yours.
In my case I have stopped driving because I couldn't turn it off