Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To agree with the Guardian about the Netflix coverage of the Lucy letby case?

998 replies

justwandered · 04/02/2026 11:49

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2026/feb/04/the-investigation-of-lucy-letby-review-netflix?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other]]

I honestly don’t think I’ve come across a show in such poor taste before and I am no stranger to stories about murder and the like.

It crosses a huge line in terms of stripping individuals of their dignity.

I don’t plan on watching it but when I turned Netflix on the other night to put a TV show on for my children there it was - horrid and completely unnecessary.

The Investigation of Lucy Letby review – this sensationalist take isn’t what this awful case needs

The broad-brush, emotive telling of the questions around the neonatal nurse’s conviction uses arrest footage that her parents have said ‘would likely kill us’ if they watched. Did her mother’s howl of distress need to be broadcast?

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2026/feb/04/the-investigation-of-lucy-letby-review-netflix?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other%5D%5D

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Applecharlotte2 · 18/02/2026 16:12

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 13:11

I've pasted what he said in a post upthread, so people can have a look at that if they want to see and assess it.

Chase didn't move from common to not uncommon. People describing what he said are certainly not being careful with words. They're mismatching everyday and scientific (statistical) language to suggest he contradicted himself.

Neonate endocrinologist didn't comment on the Chase / Shannon theory but only on the original test results, so I wouldn't see that as anything new or problematic.

No it isn’t problematic / he said straightforwardly what he would conclude if he had the same test results

Chase definitely came across as an outlier to me with his evasiveness “we would call it not uncommon” then last shot to him says “yes it is unusual” - so a leap of faith

nobody said anything - they were impartial - I’m going on what chase says himself

the last figure of 36% of the time dislodged ventilation tubes when LL on duty at Liverpool women’s hospital (think that’s what it was) as compared to stop 1 % on other shifts when she not on duty - interesting - but I’m sure you’ll reinterpret that or minimise

And we all know that documentaries can skew how things look - I thought this one just presented the evidence and people spoke - you have interpreted as saying something different to what I heard and saw - all what MH said taken together didn’t sound very hopeful for LL

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 16:21

Applecharlotte2 · 18/02/2026 16:12

No it isn’t problematic / he said straightforwardly what he would conclude if he had the same test results

Chase definitely came across as an outlier to me with his evasiveness “we would call it not uncommon” then last shot to him says “yes it is unusual” - so a leap of faith

nobody said anything - they were impartial - I’m going on what chase says himself

the last figure of 36% of the time dislodged ventilation tubes when LL on duty at Liverpool women’s hospital (think that’s what it was) as compared to stop 1 % on other shifts when she not on duty - interesting - but I’m sure you’ll reinterpret that or minimise

And we all know that documentaries can skew how things look - I thought this one just presented the evidence and people spoke - you have interpreted as saying something different to what I heard and saw - all what MH said taken together didn’t sound very hopeful for LL

Edited

There's a reason the BBC took out their conversation about the intubation stats looking "damning" for Lucy Letby after they had to correct that segment to admit they were talking about just four extubations. A single child with a vomiting disorder, a difficult airway, an inept intubator or any reason for intensive handling could have that many in the course of a shift.

So I don't need to reinterpret or minimise. The BBC has already backed down. The CPS has said there's not enough evidence of a crime to prosecute. Bit of an embarrassment for Panorama but no other significance, no.

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 16:22

Applecharlotte2 · 18/02/2026 16:12

No it isn’t problematic / he said straightforwardly what he would conclude if he had the same test results

Chase definitely came across as an outlier to me with his evasiveness “we would call it not uncommon” then last shot to him says “yes it is unusual” - so a leap of faith

nobody said anything - they were impartial - I’m going on what chase says himself

the last figure of 36% of the time dislodged ventilation tubes when LL on duty at Liverpool women’s hospital (think that’s what it was) as compared to stop 1 % on other shifts when she not on duty - interesting - but I’m sure you’ll reinterpret that or minimise

And we all know that documentaries can skew how things look - I thought this one just presented the evidence and people spoke - you have interpreted as saying something different to what I heard and saw - all what MH said taken together didn’t sound very hopeful for LL

Edited

If Chase is conducting novel research, we'd expect his results to be novel. That's fine and normal. He will have included his data in the CCRC submission.

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 18:34

Applecharlotte2 · 18/02/2026 16:12

No it isn’t problematic / he said straightforwardly what he would conclude if he had the same test results

Chase definitely came across as an outlier to me with his evasiveness “we would call it not uncommon” then last shot to him says “yes it is unusual” - so a leap of faith

nobody said anything - they were impartial - I’m going on what chase says himself

the last figure of 36% of the time dislodged ventilation tubes when LL on duty at Liverpool women’s hospital (think that’s what it was) as compared to stop 1 % on other shifts when she not on duty - interesting - but I’m sure you’ll reinterpret that or minimise

And we all know that documentaries can skew how things look - I thought this one just presented the evidence and people spoke - you have interpreted as saying something different to what I heard and saw - all what MH said taken together didn’t sound very hopeful for LL

Edited

"the last figure of 36% of the time dislodged ventilation tubes when LL on duty at Liverpool women’s hospital (think that’s what it was) as compared to stop 1 % on other shifts when she not on duty"

The review at Liverpool looked for any type of event, not just dislodged tubes, so the right comparator is with the total rate of all types of events, not just of dislodged tubes.

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 19:50

@Dolphin37 since when was it not ventilated shifts and tube dislodgements?

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 19:54

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 18:34

"the last figure of 36% of the time dislodged ventilation tubes when LL on duty at Liverpool women’s hospital (think that’s what it was) as compared to stop 1 % on other shifts when she not on duty"

The review at Liverpool looked for any type of event, not just dislodged tubes, so the right comparator is with the total rate of all types of events, not just of dislodged tubes.

Yes. And in any case the BBC has repeatedly refused to engage with questions about how many babies were ventilated during Lucy Letby's shifts. Without this information, they are comparing apples with oranges: normally 1% of babies (actually more at that time) could be expected to extubate. How many babies were present to produce Lucy Letby's four cases over eleven shifts. Oh right, we don't know ...

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 20:01

Wheresrebeccabunch · 18/02/2026 08:34

Thanks for detailing that - really helpful.
I’m still not convinced because it seems they did look at the statistical evidence in a fair bit of detail- again this would have been a really easy and obvious point for the defence if it was just that she was on more often, and on more dangerous shifts. The number of deaths in her care was found to be statistically significant it seems. The best they seemed to be able to say was that sometimes bad things do tend to cluster.

Also if nothing else it did mean an investigation into her specifically was warranted, and not into every nurse like PP have suggested. That’s when the other evidence was found. That’s the thing with circumstantial evidence it’s not just one thing, it’s several pieces of evidence and causes for suspicion, that in and of themselves might have an alternative explanation, but all together create the absence of doubt.

A notable lack of defence even though she had very senior experienced counsel. No expert witnesses, no character witnesses. You’d think her friends would be lining up to support her and fight for her like with that horrible nanny shaking the baby case years back - her friends, family and neighbours testified and formed a group to fight her conviction as I recall. But apparently only one of LL’s friends didn’t have doubts. I just read an interview with her friend Karen and LL apparently commented that she is the only person who didn’t question her. People here and on the internet generally seem more passionate in her defence than people who know her in real life.

Without an admission you can never really know though so we’ll see what happens with ccrc.

They weren't even under her care necessarily-she wasn't the designated nurse for some of them. They just managed to place her at the scene of the collapses every single time. Which just goes to show there is no way it could possibly be a scapegoating. You wouldn't blame her for deaths when she wasn't even the designated nurse, she'd more than likely be able to prove she wasn't in the room at the time of collapse no problem. A scapegoating would soon fall apart. For some reason she couldn't prove she wasn't there though 🤔

And you're right, I don't believe anyone on that unit thinks she's innocent except that Janet who didn't work in room 1. Even Dr A hasn't stood by her and claimed he was manipulated. Says a lot doesn't it!

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 20:04

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 19:54

Yes. And in any case the BBC has repeatedly refused to engage with questions about how many babies were ventilated during Lucy Letby's shifts. Without this information, they are comparing apples with oranges: normally 1% of babies (actually more at that time) could be expected to extubate. How many babies were present to produce Lucy Letby's four cases over eleven shifts. Oh right, we don't know ...

Yeah yeah yeah everything's wrong that makes Lucy look bad, every highly intelligent expert has misunderstood what Shoo Lee said, it's all one big misunderstanding. Or it's exactly as it seems and she was pulling tubes out and poisoning babies.

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 20:14

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 20:04

Yeah yeah yeah everything's wrong that makes Lucy look bad, every highly intelligent expert has misunderstood what Shoo Lee said, it's all one big misunderstanding. Or it's exactly as it seems and she was pulling tubes out and poisoning babies.

There are a few minor misconceptions about Shoo Lee's findings circulating - probably largely because people commenting can only speculate about what's in the full reports. No sign of lots of highly qualified experts misunderstanding them, though, although there are some click-baiting charlatans cosplaying experts out there on youtube..

The BBC should have put reporters with statistical and medical expertise on to the Letby case. Panorama has unfortunately not been rigorous here.

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 20:22

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 20:01

They weren't even under her care necessarily-she wasn't the designated nurse for some of them. They just managed to place her at the scene of the collapses every single time. Which just goes to show there is no way it could possibly be a scapegoating. You wouldn't blame her for deaths when she wasn't even the designated nurse, she'd more than likely be able to prove she wasn't in the room at the time of collapse no problem. A scapegoating would soon fall apart. For some reason she couldn't prove she wasn't there though 🤔

And you're right, I don't believe anyone on that unit thinks she's innocent except that Janet who didn't work in room 1. Even Dr A hasn't stood by her and claimed he was manipulated. Says a lot doesn't it!

How would you, years after an event, prove you weren't in the room in a small unit where you were working at any time one night? When routine nursing notes were marked to the nearest 15 minutes, and any contradictions in your own notes were discounted as lies?

If you can think how it would be done I would be glad to learn.

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 20:33

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 19:50

@Dolphin37 since when was it not ventilated shifts and tube dislodgements?

Paragraph 116 in https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/thirlwall-evidence/INQ0017472.pdf says they searched for all incident types:

“. Following contact with Cheshire Police in Summer 2018, a review of case notes was
undertaken for both periods when Letby worked at LWH. The process that was followed
is outlined below (data relates to both time periods, 2012 and 2015).
In order to review any potential suspicious events at LWH a review was undertaken.
Ali incidents reported in the incident reporting system that included the name LL were
examined. All deaths occurring on the days when LL was on duty were reviewed. The
electronic patient record system (Badger system) was searched to identify any note
entries made by LL. She had contact with 33 babies on a total of 324 patient days.
Each of these days of care was reviewed by a neonatal consultant to identify any
unusual or suspicious deterioration in the patient's condition. In addition, all babies
who were on the neonatal unit on the days when LL was on duty were identified using
the Badger system. Each of these days of care were reviewed by a neonatal
consultant to identify unexpected cr unexplained deterioration in clinical condition.
There were 257 babies on the unit during those days with 1,308 days of care requiring
review (source Chester Investigation Report 40219 as per Exhibit MT/18
[INQ0011632]).”

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 20:43

@Dolphin37 I don't think that has anything to do with Panorama asking LWH for tube dislodgement stats on her shifts.

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 20:46

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 20:33

Paragraph 116 in https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/thirlwall-evidence/INQ0017472.pdf says they searched for all incident types:

“. Following contact with Cheshire Police in Summer 2018, a review of case notes was
undertaken for both periods when Letby worked at LWH. The process that was followed
is outlined below (data relates to both time periods, 2012 and 2015).
In order to review any potential suspicious events at LWH a review was undertaken.
Ali incidents reported in the incident reporting system that included the name LL were
examined. All deaths occurring on the days when LL was on duty were reviewed. The
electronic patient record system (Badger system) was searched to identify any note
entries made by LL. She had contact with 33 babies on a total of 324 patient days.
Each of these days of care was reviewed by a neonatal consultant to identify any
unusual or suspicious deterioration in the patient's condition. In addition, all babies
who were on the neonatal unit on the days when LL was on duty were identified using
the Badger system. Each of these days of care were reviewed by a neonatal
consultant to identify unexpected cr unexplained deterioration in clinical condition.
There were 257 babies on the unit during those days with 1,308 days of care requiring
review (source Chester Investigation Report 40219 as per Exhibit MT/18
[INQ0011632]).”

Or to be precise, they searched for all types of incident (which is your point, I know) but only when Lucy Letby was on shift.

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 20:51

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 20:33

Paragraph 116 in https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/thirlwall-evidence/INQ0017472.pdf says they searched for all incident types:

“. Following contact with Cheshire Police in Summer 2018, a review of case notes was
undertaken for both periods when Letby worked at LWH. The process that was followed
is outlined below (data relates to both time periods, 2012 and 2015).
In order to review any potential suspicious events at LWH a review was undertaken.
Ali incidents reported in the incident reporting system that included the name LL were
examined. All deaths occurring on the days when LL was on duty were reviewed. The
electronic patient record system (Badger system) was searched to identify any note
entries made by LL. She had contact with 33 babies on a total of 324 patient days.
Each of these days of care was reviewed by a neonatal consultant to identify any
unusual or suspicious deterioration in the patient's condition. In addition, all babies
who were on the neonatal unit on the days when LL was on duty were identified using
the Badger system. Each of these days of care were reviewed by a neonatal
consultant to identify unexpected cr unexplained deterioration in clinical condition.
There were 257 babies on the unit during those days with 1,308 days of care requiring
review (source Chester Investigation Report 40219 as per Exhibit MT/18
[INQ0011632]).”

Interesting figures, though.

So 1308 days of care = 2616 shifts(?), of which 11 out of approx 50 was the period the extubation "statistic" came from. So about 572 shifts during that time. Was 4 extubations an unexpectedly high figure during those shifts? Depends entirely how many children were intubated, which is the missing data before you even come close to considering the many legitimate reasons for extubations.

BBC really needs to understand that bad data isn't better than no data.

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 21:10

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 20:43

@Dolphin37 I don't think that has anything to do with Panorama asking LWH for tube dislodgement stats on her shifts.

Allegations of LWH tube dislodgements were first aired at Thirlwall on Sep 12, 2024 , sourced to "an audit carried out by Liverpool Women's Hospital". So Panorama (aired a year later) was asking specifically for tube dislodgement stats (and not for all incidents) only because of that earlier claim.

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 21:24

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 20:51

Interesting figures, though.

So 1308 days of care = 2616 shifts(?), of which 11 out of approx 50 was the period the extubation "statistic" came from. So about 572 shifts during that time. Was 4 extubations an unexpectedly high figure during those shifts? Depends entirely how many children were intubated, which is the missing data before you even come close to considering the many legitimate reasons for extubations.

BBC really needs to understand that bad data isn't better than no data.

It's unclear how the shift numbers in the Panorama were defined, but they weren't the standard definitions used in the literature (which are "ventilator days" not "ventilator shifts"). Some possibilities were explored here.

Oftenaddled · 18/02/2026 21:32

Dolphin37 · 18/02/2026 21:24

It's unclear how the shift numbers in the Panorama were defined, but they weren't the standard definitions used in the literature (which are "ventilator days" not "ventilator shifts"). Some possibilities were explored here.

It's a mess. Panorama (and Thirlwall) really mangled whatever they were trying to say there. I hate to see people present "statistics" without being transparent about the underlying data. I think that the Thirlwall lawyer who first came out with this should have been obliged to clarify it, instead of announcing it and then quietly dropping it after Jane Hutton got in touch to tell him he wasn't making sense.

EyeLevelStick · 18/02/2026 22:21

Firefly1987 · 18/02/2026 20:04

Yeah yeah yeah everything's wrong that makes Lucy look bad, every highly intelligent expert has misunderstood what Shoo Lee said, it's all one big misunderstanding. Or it's exactly as it seems and she was pulling tubes out and poisoning babies.

The Lee and Tanswell paper was misunderstood by Evans, the Chester doctors and the judges who denied the appeal. This is not in any doubt.

Do you think you somehow know better?

NorfolkandBad · 19/02/2026 11:07

Posted on YouTube today

I make no comment on it and obviously have nothing to do with it.

JoyfulSpring · 19/02/2026 20:19

NorfolkandBad · 19/02/2026 11:07

Posted on YouTube today

I make no comment on it and obviously have nothing to do with it.

This is what the netflix documentary should have been! The actual truth.

Iamateadrinker · 19/02/2026 22:41

Worth a watch

Firefly1987 · 19/02/2026 22:43

EyeLevelStick · 18/02/2026 22:21

The Lee and Tanswell paper was misunderstood by Evans, the Chester doctors and the judges who denied the appeal. This is not in any doubt.

Do you think you somehow know better?

I think I was actually talking about Mike Hall misunderstanding what the panel said there. But as far as the rest, I don't think there's a misunderstanding so much as splitting hairs about types of air embolism.

EyeLevelStick · 19/02/2026 23:00

Firefly1987 · 19/02/2026 22:43

I think I was actually talking about Mike Hall misunderstanding what the panel said there. But as far as the rest, I don't think there's a misunderstanding so much as splitting hairs about types of air embolism.

Splitting hairs? You actually think that because Lee’s sign happens in some incidences of arterial air embolism, the presence of skin discolouration indicates air embolism caused by IV injection of air?

kkloo · 20/02/2026 12:47

Splitting hairs? Wow 😮

MargaretThursday · 20/02/2026 13:24

kkloo · 20/02/2026 12:47

Splitting hairs? Wow 😮

Saying that the difference is splitting hairs is showing lack of knowledge of the subject really.

It's the same in a lot of things: people who have years of knowledge of a subject understand far better how much they don't know. Someone who is just starting out and has done a half day course thinks they know everything.

Swipe left for the next trending thread