To feel our quality of life in the UK gets lower every year?

[Playingvideogames]

Off the back of another thread where I mentioned my childhood homes being bought by my parents for under 300k in the late 90s/early 2000s, and are now all selling for 700k+.

I feel like our quality of life just dwindles every year. Everything becomes more expensive. Housing is low quality, small and extortionate. The weather is awful 70% of the time. Everything feels so overcrowded with fewer green spaces and natural beauty as more housing estates go up. The roads are awful, choked with traffic and potholed. Constant roadworks here yet nothing ever seems to get solved. Customer service is a bit rubbish, nothing really works as intended. More and more rules about what you can and can’t do. People just seem stifled and stressed.

I’m sure people will rush along to say how wonderful the NHS is and similar, but I sometimes feel really envious of people living in places where (although not perfect) they have something reliable to enjoy - great weather, a nice big house, just more space and less overcrowding.

I don’t think I’m being unreasonable but I wonder if you do!

I doubt it's fine in the opinion of the people sho live there and face persecution, but they don't exactly get a say.

But it's their country? People could just follow the rules. I wonder how msny people are getting murdered for a Rolex watch in North Korea?

Is low crime rate, good economy & no taxes then, in your view, worth the price of severe curtailing of speech, political protest & government criticism, kafala system exploiting migrants, women being trafficked for porta potty parties?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6300/UAE:-Govt.-intensifies-suppression-of-voices-opposing-its-policies,-escalates-rights-violations&ved=2ahUKEwi_gp2Wy8OSAxXWQkEAHRCyIKwQFnoECGYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Uz_3iPGQ90r18CWSeq4m-

This article is one of many showing the abysmal way Dubai treats those who criticise its governmental policies.

This one is also interesting. What do you think about these facts?

The government has been criticized by international human rights organizations for failure to investigate allegations of torture and mistreatment in custody, including denial of medical care. Detainees regularly report abuse by the authorities. Those involved in the UAE 94 case and the new mass trial in 2023 have reported prolonged solitary confinement and other harsh conditions.

Sharia (Islamic law) courts sometimes impose flogging sentences for offenses including drug use, prostitution, and extramarital sex.

Women generally receive smaller inheritances than men under Sharia, and women are excluded from state benefits aimed at supporting home ownership.

Women are generally placed at a distinct disadvantage under laws governing marriage and divorce. Among other disparities, a Muslim woman’s male guardian must approve her marriage. Muslim women are forbidden to marry non-Muslims, while Muslim men may marry Christian or Jewish women. Some categories of extramarital sex are criminal offenses, which deters victims from reporting rape. No laws prohibit spousal rape. A measure adopted in 2019 introduced orders of protection and new criminal penalties to address domestic violence, but its wording appeared to allow some forms of control or punishment by male guardians.

The penal code that took effect in 2022 reintroduced criminal penalties for unmarried couples in some situations, for example by allowing the husband or male guardian of a woman in such a relationship to file charges.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/united-arab-emirates/freedom-world/2024#:~:text=A%20new%20cybercrime%20law%20that,use%20advanced%20commercial%20spyware%20products.

I think it's also misleading to imply that UAE's crime rate can be reasonably compared to UK's.

Nearly 90% of UAE residents are foreign expats. In such a society, it's unsurprising crime rates are low, violent crime at any rate.

Though you're really speaking of crime that gets reported and punished.

Given the disgusting way foreign workers have historically been treated, and to some extent still are, under the kafala system, and the rampant sex trafficking of women, maybe Dubai's crime rate behind closed doors is actually quite high but goes unpunished because wealthy Arab or maybe Expat men are the ones committing the crimes.

Well, you're surprisingly positive about UAE then, given they impose strict penalties on freedom of speech!

Re polygyny, I assume you mean polygamy? It's multiple wives that are allowed for mem, not multiple husbands for women.

Polygamy has been shown to very often cause great distress to women, children and to a lesser extent men.

Of course it seems pretty unquestionable to us that gay people should have the same rights as everybody else. But people from ME cultures might be asking their friends who live in the West how they can be comfortable living somewhere where immorality is allowed to flourish and people can openly disrespect the teachings of Allah etc.

Eastern European Catholic countries are different, I agree. As a part-Pole, your comparison is invalid.

Poland wasn't always dominated politically by super conservative Catholics. Far from homosexuality being merely 'not technically illegal' now, it has been explicitly decriminalised there since 1932, putting Poland ahead of UK, several US states, Switzerland, Nordic countries, Germany, Austria, . In the 1930s, novels such as Adam Gryzwald and Anetka featured gay protagonists, and social reformers like Irena Kryzwicka advocated for gay rights.

Homophobia is definitely a big issue in Poland but at the same time, gay people can live in partnerships (more easily in big cities like Warsaw) and not fear arrest. People won't be arrested for writing on an LGBT forum etc Public figures like TV host Mariusz Szygiel and politician Robert Biedron are openly gay. It is not a comparable situation to UAE.

Oh definitely, I'm not surprised at the attitude by many who are from ME (and of course gay rights are relatively recent in West) What I'm objecting to on here is the 'I'm all right, Jack' blasé attitude to this & many other ME human rights violations by expats.

Far from homosexuality being merely 'not technically illegal' now, it has been explicitly decriminalised there since 1932, putting Poland ahead of UK, several US states, Switzerland, Nordic countries, Germany, Austria.

Surely it's not a criminal offence in the UK?

Sorry : To be clear, what I meant was that Poland decriminalised it before all the other countries I mentioned. It was recriminalised by the Nazis during the occupation, but we changed that back after the war.

Poland was also ahead many European countries including the UK in giving women fully equal voting rights in 1918. Obviously ur is a very conservative country in many ways,,but the situation is and has been more complex than the ME.

YANBU, problem is everything is just getting harder and harder to do. It’s like a doom hole.

I don’t know what’s going to turn it around.

It's like this thread comparing China to the US and many (not all, thankfully) saying how safe China is and how good it would be to visit. Obviously the US is pretty unstable especially in certain states right now, but China's hardly a better option..!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5483682-usa-or-china-a-safer-tourist-destination

We do. At the moment we are overcrowded but otoh we have an aging population and not that many births. Immigrants have a higher birth rate but it tends to fall to the same level as the main population fairly soon so that won't raise the birth rate much

I agree with the overcrowding issue but the low birth rate issue coexists with that.

Slovakia again : yes, the Catholic church is a big influence and gay rights are very poor. But it's still not comparable to UAE. It's certainly not illegal, gay people will not be arrested for having consensual adult relationships or writing on a gay forum.

Similar for Philippines. Catholicism (and also Islam, which around 6-11% of Filipinos are) introduced opposition to homosexuality to a historically pretty tolerant country, which like other Asian countries, had traditions of gay male relationships and shamanic roles. It's still not a comparable situation to UAE. Maybe because of the precolonial history, Filipino public opinion on gay people often polls as fairly positive. Again, people are not arrested for relationships or forum posts. The leading film director Lino Brocka was openly gay and made films about this during the 1980s Marcos dictatorship. They were censored, but he was allowed to remain free. This would be unthinkable in UAE now.

Interestingly, Catholics in Philippines poll as having far more positive opinions of gay people than Muslims do, and rights for gay people in Muslim majority areas are harsher. Yes, there are many more Catholics in the first place, but it shows the situation is more complex than you imply.

People worry about birth rates because a population comprising of more older people is not affordable. We are feeling some of the impacts of that now & it will only get worse.

A smaller population is good but logically you want pyramid demographics.

And am I wrong about gay marriage not being allowed?

I'm quite aware thank you? I have Filipino relatives and have been there often

I was stating that there wasn't gay marriage and the church doesn't approve.

Mind you this thread seems to have taken a turn from the standard of living in the UK to everyone going on about how actual the ME is. It's not my cup of tea ( not Dubai anyway I don't mind dogs) but it provides a great standard of living for many western people living there else they wouldn't go

I think Carla ( and I found this hard to stomache) was that many people really don’t give a shit about others one but, so long as they are ok , it reminds me of a very elderly uncle who is a real odd bod - Never married, really right wing, masses of money ( think millionaire) but lives in a scruffy rented tiny flat in a horrible town , basically a total miser,, thinks we should just shoot the boats and let people drown etc - around Brexit time we had to go out for a birthday meal with him and my FIL - he started going on about Brexit and we explained that it would ruin quite a lot of aspects of our business which has a strong EU market and his response-‘so be it, you will just have to trade with the commonwealth! ‘ Yep because all business markets are the same - the fact is plenty in Dubai really don’t care , same here, same in US , look at Trumps interview yesterday, all he was concerned about with regard to the Minnesota killings was it’s given him bad press . I’m concluding that at this moment in time I would prefer a simple life in the sun , sat on a Greek island, drinking wine , making nice meals and reading fiction books !!!

Violent Crime rates are pretty low in many of the wealthier areas ‘around ‘Amsterdam or Copenhagen etc - as you rightly say - it’s not just a UAE thing. You will get some theft - I’m pretty sure you will in the UAE too , difference is they sell themselves on their safeness so there’s a good chance anything like that is under reported . Any country where people have to dump their cars and homes overnight and people flee overnight because of the risk of debt if they lose income or lose jobs to me is one weird culture , no amount of surface ‘safeness’ will make up for those kinds of issues

Surely if you have relatives there, you can see there's significant difference between the main religion being used to arrest people for relationships & forum posts, and it being used to deny partnership and adoption rights?
The latter situation is still very poor but it's significantly better than risking jail purely by having a relationship or writing about it online.

Of course. The situation is not good at all, but it's still significantly better, and thus not comparable,,to a place where consensual relationships and writing online about them can land you in jail.

Exactly. It is possible to have safety, which is clearly desirable, without Orwellian free speech laws, prison sentences etc

Yes, sadly many do have that attitude. Trump is an especially blatant example!