‘You’re lucky you’re neurotypical and able to focus’

[Hangerbout]

I get annoyed that hard work and self-discipline is dismissed as ‘luck’ and a sign that someone is ‘neurotypical’.

I was reading a thread on here about WLI weight regain which then made me remember a comment from a colleague who had successfully lost a lot of weight on WLI, which then made me remember comment from another colleague who had recently got a private diagnosis of ADHD (which is in the title of the thread).

The comment from the colleague on WLI:

‘I was really struggling with my weight, which had increased due to menopause. When I took the drugs, total game changer. All of a sudden, I had no food noise. I was actually forgetting to eat. Then I realised, this is what normal is. This is how others normally are’

I just get aggrieved by these types of comments. Actually, sometimes the qualities of a person are a choice, not some kind of genetic gift. Is it just me that thinks this?

So the disabilities disabled people endure are choices.

I’m pleased to see the replies on this thread.

I have one ADHD child and one NT child. Similar IQ. But everything so so much harder for my ADHD son. He’s exhausted just trying to keep up.

NT child comes home from school and happily does his homework and hours of study with no bother.

ADHD:- Well science shows they have delayed sleep cycles. So already start the day tired in a NT world. Then at school - masking and trying to focus will tire them out even more. Then the dopamine has gone and they’ve still
got HW.
Plus their brains are never quiet!

It’s not really specifically about losing weight. Could be anything. But life is harder so have empathy. It doesn’t take away from your efforts.

I have suspected ADHD. I have no issues with my weight. It manifests itself in many other areas though and I’m permanently exhausted.

You are unreasonable in a sense.
My kids, me and my DH all have adhd. I didnt even think about it until my child was put on a sen pathway, which we faught and then accepted, after many hours of research I now understand what was wrong all along.
Why I and my partner were both expelled from our respective schools, despite being high acheievers and now high earners. I used to say I had tidying dyslexia when I had no other words or explanation for why I struggled with certain tasks so much.
Brain scans and monitors of people with adhd show clear differences in the way brains work with adhd. There are medical differences to chemical balance and the way neurons fire in an adhd brain. This means that tasks you might find easy are impossibly hard for someone with adhd. Executive function is greatly impared, however intelligence can be very high. An adhd childs brain is working harder to maintain focus in school for isntance, leading to outbursts and fidgeting.
However, adults with adhd can hse techniques, medication and habits to alleviate the symptoms and issues caused by adhd. There are also different levels so someone with mild adhd can seem different to someone without.
If you are curious as to if these comments hold merit then do some research on adhd and form a proper opinion, not just rely on 'seeing' someone with adhd and their comments, but form a proper opinion based on fact. Its ok to hold opinions but not based on limited knowledge and a couple of people you speak to.

This seems seems a bit like when my boomer dad complains if he hears that middle aged white men are privileged, taking it as an implication that everything has always been easy for him and he's never had to work.

That is not the case - he has worked very hard at some things, the point is his starting position was better than a lot of other people.

Same with this - hearing that ND people have struggles that NT people largely don't, doesn't mean NT people have no problems ever in life - just that their starting positions are different. It seems strange to make this about getting your own recognition.

For example - I am NT, and have never been overweight. This hasn't been particularly hard for me, but I do exercise and sometimes thing "maybe I should have a whole pizza" so I guess it isn't a complete genetic gift. But having spoken with friends who experience "food noise" - it sounds overwhelming, and intrusive, and constant. My choices not to eat something unhealthy are much easier in comparison

Weight and appetite is massively influenced by our genes. Unless you are the only slim person in an overweight family it's unlikely to just down to your marvellous willpower.

I am slim, when I spend time with my overweight friends they eat in ways that wouldn't occur to me. I love a biscuit/pizza/whatever, but their appetite is just so much bigger than mine. If it wouldn't occur to me to eat a 3rd/4th biscuit this isn't me exercising willpower or working hard.

Diets for them mean their food noise is constant all day. This is why for most people a diet lasts a few weeks.

Well, since losing a lot of weight (bereavement stress) I’ve decided I’m happy to be back to slim, so I work to maintain it.

It’s hard work sometimes.

Not everything is easy just because you’re classed as NT. 🤷‍♀️. We all struggle at times with different things.

So somebody tells you they think they now understand how other people experience the world having had a different experience before. You could actually have a conversation about that couldn't you and get to the bottom of whether you have experienced what they have or the other way round. But no. You'd rather just get aggrieved about it. That's a choice too. HTH.

I guess you'll never know if your food noise is as big as hers. But imagine this- I wear glasses, and when I put them on I say is this how people see all the time? And I recently got a car that the drivers seat goes up and down not just forward and back and I said to my husband is that how much of the bonnet you usually see? But I guess he's more disciplined than me that he can see without glasses and is higher up in the car without moving the seat.....

It is just luck in a lot of cases.

For instance I read and retain information really bloody fast. Around 400 wpm (average is around 250 - 300 wpm). That's not a skill I've taught myself, its just a byproduct of the way my brain is wired.

I can't picture anything in my mind (aphantasia) so there's an intermediate step that most people go through when reading that I don't do, which means I can just inhale information. It has other benefits as well. I'm really good at navigation, because I don't build up false pictures in my head, and apparently I'm unlikely to be able to get PTSD.

Thats all luck (or more accurately, probably some quirk of brain development. It also comes with a fair few downsides (chief of which being that I can't tell when DP has had a haircut)

On the other hand, I live with a fair bit of food noise. There is a part of my brain constantly sitting there going "FEEEEEEEEEDDDDD MEEEEEEEE". I've lost 40lbs in the last year, not through WLIs but from the fact that I got diabetes and my diet meant that I was risking my sight and it scared the crap out of me. That voice in my head never shut up though. I lost it despite that, and it would have been a damn sight easier without it.

My brother on the other hand has no food noise at all. He eats because he's hungry, or because it's meal time. If he had to diet , he'd just do it. He wouldn't have to tell the little voice in his brain "Right, if you're good for the next few hours you can have a square of chocolate after dinner". He wouldn't find himself in the kitchen looking in the cupboard without even conciously being aware of getting there.

I think he's lucky as fuck, because he's never going to have black spots in his vision because he ate too much shit. But I also think he's unlucky, because I don't think he'll ever get to experience the sheer joy I do from food.

There's no difference in nurture going on there, we were brought up exactly the same. We're just wired differently, through no choice of our own. Call it genetics, call it luck, its basically the same thing.

Recognising privilege is important.
I am lucky that I can focus and was able to complete higher level education and work in a high preassure job. Just like I'm lucky I have full mobility and can easily enter any public space and engage in activities.
I am lucky that I don't have issues with food and only feel hungry when I need to eat so I'm not overweight. Just like I am lucky that I don't have thyroid issues impacting my weight.

Sometimes I do struggle to focus and I work hard to achieve. Sometimes my body is tired and I have had a broken a leg that's got in the way of my mobility. I crave chocolate and don't really like veg so I have to think about what I eat. So my achievements have needed some work, but I struggle no more than the average person, so I am lucky to not have ADHD and constant food noise.

I think YABU for being "aggrieved" over something as mundane as a woman reducing food noise if its been bothering her, and thinking this is what those without it must feel like.
Hardly the faux pas of the century.

I am lucky that I can focus and was able to complete higher level education and work in a high preassure job

I would point out that many of my ADHD family members and those with dyslexia and dyspraxia also have managed to complete undergraduate and post graduate degrees and work in high pressure jobs.

It's a constant theme on here kids with SEN or ND or both can't be acadmic - they often are but face different challenges to NT kids - negative messaging about their ablities and potential often big part of those challenges.

DD1 finally getting diagnosed at uni - she still had to pass all the exams to get there and compete for the place - but it now means she can access software and services that can help her meet her potential. I've just dye my hair this morning but for first time put some money into gear that makes that easier - I managed before but the right tools made it so much less hassle this morning.

People do dimsiss hard work and risks taken especially if they aren't hugely visible - it's done to eveyone - The harder I work, the luckier is a well know counter.

If the drugs that are made to aid weight loss help this woman and she can afford it nodd and move on - many NT and ND people find them a useful tool.

Your life is a combination of the hand you were dealt and how you play it. We are not all created equal so it would be ridiculous to say that some people are not more fortunate than others. Does that mean that working hard and applying yourself means nothing? Of course not.

I’m dyslexic. I can read or write anything . I do find it difficult to understand why certain NT people cannot select the right homophone. DH for instance, He could learn in an hour but would rather ask me every time, It took considerably more effort for me to learn.

The difference is that your dad is objectively and unequivocally male, white presenting and middle aged. These are facts.

The ND/NT distinction is nowhere near as scientifically certain or binary as sex for example. When does NT end and ND start? Science tells us that most of us have measurable ND traits and in lots of cases these can be significant. We then package these up into conditions such as ASD/ADHD and set often quite arbitrary thresholds. If you hit the threshold you have Autism for example and if you don't the threshold then you're NT. The obvious problem is we know there is a massive grey area covered by the Broader Autism Phenotype where so called NT people have often significant autistic traits. They are often relatives of people with Autism. They can have very 'autistic style' struggles in specific areas but they can be deemed to be subthreshold. As with all things though, there will be people that just meet the threshold and those that just miss out. This makes sweeping comments about NT/ND people a complete fallacy.

We are only just bringing to gain an understanding of this area and applying binary distinctions and sweeping generalisations between people based on these labels is super dangerous and extremely demeaning to those NT people who actually might share many of the same struggles as someone with a ND diagnosis

Yes, there is a tendency for people to assume that when people seem to be doing something successfully, it is "easy" for them. And about luck.

And sure people's natural abilities can vary. But many people also work hard at such things.

But something I have noticed with kids is that we seem to have largely got rid of the idea that habits and such, trained from a young age, are a big part of creating self-disciplined people. The assumption is that if it doesn't come easily, there is no point in building up those skills.

I agree. My oldest child performs excellently academically. Obviously she is clever, but it isn't just that. She is really good at studying. When I was sitting an exam as an adult I went to her for study advice and the main take away was the sheer amount of concentrated mental work she was prepared/able to put in to excel. My younger child is just as bright, but uses that to do the minimum to get by. Hence their very different academic results.

People we think of as really talented at something are usually a combination of natural talent and the capacity and willingness to work incredibly hard at it. Most people don't want to work that hard, but rather than own it, they prefer to call other people 'lucky'.

I have been slim all my life and probably hungry for a fair bit of it too. I get 'food noise' but I ignore it and I exercise hard. This is essential as a petite post menopausal woman to stay slim. It isn't easy, it is a choice to put the work in.

I accept some people are born with less skills and talent, but we can all work harder and improve what we have. But putting the work in sucks, really, so we largely don't do it unless we have to or are driven.

That’s the point though you can have two intelligent children. The NT child appears to work harder -
they concentrate for hours and are motivated (because the dopamine is there and available).

ND child may be equally intelligent. But has to work twice as hard at school to focus and take it all in. So they’re more exhausted. Then they lack the dopamine which creates the motivation to study and revise at home. So it looks like they’re not trying or not working as hard. But there’s so much more than that to it!

Everything is harder if you are neurodiverse. The world is built for neurotypical people.

My thoughts exactly. I was almost impressed by OPs ability to hit two frequent targets at once.

I don't lack discipline. I have a PhD and a career that requires lengthy - in some cases, years long - digging into very complicated questions. But whether it's hormones or how I was fed as a child (I imagine a bit of both), eating little enough to lose weight is incredibly hard for me. Going on WLI, was a sudden realisation, "Oh, some people don't just feel like they'll die if they don't consume something sweet at 4pm every day. Some people just feel full and stop eating." So yeah, whatever the cause, I do think it is harder for me to do this than other people.

Generally, ND people aren't saying that NT people don't need to try and that it isn't an effort for them to focus. They're saying that you're starting from a different base line. The equivalent would be me saying Usain Bolt is naturally better at sprinting than me: I'm not saying he doesn't train and work hard. But I'm acknowledging that, with all the effort in the world, a sub 10 second 100m is beyond me!

That has nothing to do with Neurodiversity. Your child is lucky she can study. My children with 2 massive ND disabilities can’t. They are working their arses off every day just to survive thankyou very much and are bright probably just as bright as your child but they have disabilities. You don’t get to tell the disabled yo work harder and improve what they have you just don’t. What an appalling thing to say.

I can testify it's 100% true about the WLI and food noise.

Every time someone starts a thread asking how slim people keep slim or similar, the replies are always about half people saying they're very disciplined and hard working and not like the lazy fatties etc, and then the other half saying they don't make any effort at all, it's just how they've always been, couldn't overeat if they tried, don't get food noise and don't even understand what it means etc. Sometimes it's genetic - sometimes not.

Actually, the older child may be neurodiverse. It was suggested by her primary school for a number of reasons. We didn't pursue a diagnosis, for a number of reasons. As an adult she has decided she doesn't want to be diagnosed. Life is hard in many ways - excelling academically doesn't equal an easy life - but she is a grafter.

That is my point - hard work is a skill that can be learned - but because it is hard, most of us don't want to do it.

I relate to the weight part. Since the perimenopause, the ‘food noise’ is overwhelming and it takes all my willpower to stay slim, and I think about food all the time. Very little ‘luck’ involved these days 😩