To thnk that airlines should not allow lap babies on flights?

[Frannyhy]

I’ve not flown for a few years, so I don’t know if lap kids are allowed by all airlines. I’m in South America at the moment, on a big trip.

My flight between cities was delayed yesterday due to bad weather. There were a lot of hot, tired people by the time we got on.

I was in the aisle seat and a woman with a baby arrived and indicated she was in the same row. I got up for her and she said something I didn’t understand and waited. Finally, she reluctantly sat in the middle seat with the baby on her lap. Her partner appeared from the other end of the plane and gave her some baby stuff.

She started complaining to the cabin crew, pointing at my seat. By now I understood she wanted to be in the aisle. I said no, and one of the cabin crew said to me in English, “Don’t worry we haven’t got time for this, we’re already an hour late. It’s only a 90 minutes flight so she can manage.”

I’m left wondering why lap babies are allowed on flights. He wasn’t restrained so if anything had happened, it would have meant he probably would have been seriously injured or worse.

I was on a cheap flight so I don’t care that I had to sit next to a wriggling baby. I just ignored him and read my book.

But I do think allowing babies on laps should be stopped. It’s fucking dangerous.

Car seats and infants on planes don't work in the UK and most of Europe.

Yes you can buy seats that are flight approved but the airlines generally require the seats to be 5 point forward facing seats and are restricted in width to the plane seat. In the UK infants must travel rear facing so these seats don't exist. Majority of infants carriers are also 3 point in the UK. I spent a long time trying to get a car seat that would go on a plane.

The large convertible isofix seats do not fit on planes seats.

Rubbish. The couple could have actually reserved seats together. It’s not up to the OP to facilitate their travel arrangements m.

You have to call to book an infant seat, we have always booked one just for the extra space, it's definitely worth it.

With ryanair weve been on flights where it was cheaper to buy an extra ticket than pay the lap infant fee! You can actually just book and extra seat for yourself too- it's called a comfort seat.

You can get a CARES harness for toddlers in their own seat- marvellous things, i think they should be supplied on the planes.

I have never done a domestic US flight, but under 2s generally sit on parents' laps with an extension lap belt.

For long haul flights they can (unsure if extra cost ) get a sky cot to sleep in

You do get a seatbelt attachment for them. To be fair I’ve always been of the thought that god forbid the plane crashed, a seatbelt wouldn’t really cut it for anyone and we’d probably die anyway…

The experts say exactly what I just told you.

While airlines allow children under two to fly on a lap using a seat belt extender, it is generally not considered the safest option by safety experts, including the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). For maximum safety, infants should be in a rear-facing car seat. Lap belts can cause injury in severe turbulence or accidents, though they are common for convenience.

Seat belts aren't going to do anything safety wise in a crash. They may make it easier to identify bodies that are securely strapped in to numbered seats.

The baby wasn't the issue in this story though, it's a standard don't want to swap seats story. You could swap 'lapbaby' with 'people with long legs' and have the same outcome.

I’m actually surprised now I think of it that the airlines don’t have baby seats you can hire for regular seats (I know they have the cot things). They love making people spend extra money on stuff when flying so I’m surprised it’s not become an “extra”.

I remember having to take my child on my lap when he was almost two. It was a requirement of the airline that children under 2 had to be on your lap. It was a complete and utter pain and a nightmare flight for us.

Why a reduced cost if the car seat is taking up the whole empty seat

No, it is not "an international safety guideline airlines need to adhere to". It is a guideline/rule in the UK and many European countries. It is not international. In fact, in some countries, like Canada (see below) their use is, in fact, illegal. So, the exact opposite of it being a safety guideline that airlines need to adhere to. Since the OP was not in UK or Europe, none of the rules there apply.

The following devices are not approved for use as child restraint systems on an aircraft:

• Booster seats (for older children who have outgrown their car seat)
• Not approved for use as child restraint systems on an aircraft, as they are designed to be used with a car lap and shoulder belt
• Child vests and harnesses, infant carriers and other similar carriers
• Not approved for use as child restraint systems on an aircraft, as they may not be used when the aircraft is moving on the ground, during takeoff and landing or when the safety belt sign is on
• "Belly" or "loop" belts, which are intended for infant use and are attached to an adult’s safety belt by feeding the adult’s belt segments through a loop on the infant’s belt
• Not approved for use as child restraint systems on an aircraft, as they could injure the infant in case of an accident

Air travel with children - Travel.gc.ca

You should have offered to pop the baby in the overhead locker, much safer for everyone.

Anyone that is demanding your booked and paid for seat is being a dick, regardless of reason, ignore them.

I can't understand what your complaint is. Your last line states that you think it's dangerous for babies to be on laps, yet most of your post seems to be complaining that the woman wanted your seat.

If you are really asking about whether babies should be allowed on laps, then why all the unnecessary information about this particular woman who didn't want the middle seat? She had every right to ask to switch seats with you and you had every right to refuse (as would I). I can see that it was annoying that she made a big deal about it and complained to the cabin crew, but this is nothing to do with the fact that she had a baby with her or that her baby may have been unsafe.

Some of the none believers in belts helping in the event of an accident, even for adults, might want to take a look at the video of the United 232 accident in 1989.....horrendous to look at but 184 survivors out of over 290 total onboard...

But one babe in arms was killed and ever since one of the Flight Attendants has campaigned on the whole issue of infants and restraints.

The video is in this news report but it's not for the faint hearted or nervous flyer....but it does show what is survivable.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=qd_GHqOVlDU

Why would I be complaining to BA? I’m in South America!

🙄

This is the regulation , during take off , landing and turbulence the babies are strapped on the parent. Have you been in a flight where this was not the case?

In terms of safety, which was the OPs point, in the event of an emergency landing wouldn’t most parents grab their child and get into brace position holding them? So I would say a belt child extender thing would be best. I can’t imagine a parent leaving a child in a car seat or bassinet. Hence why they are in laps for takeoff which is a more risky time.

Poor planning on the parents part does not require financial planning on the OPs part. Its not hard to get these things done.

If anything the mother should have offered to swap with the fathers neighbour as it seems their seats were inferior

Yes - most flights that I've been on. Once again, the use of these belts is not universal. In some countries, they are banned.

@McSpoot @Balloonhearts I live in Europe and I go by guidelines we have here. Not saying that ours are better or worse than those from any other country, but we’ll all go mad if we start to compare each guideline. There are countries who don’t vaccinate against XYZ, or don’t recommend Vit D, or have different car safety rules. I chose to adhere to expert advice we have here and I think that’s a legitimate choice, but equally I’m not bothered if someone else decides to follow expert advice from country X.

The OP hasn’t said anywhere (unless I’ve missed an update) that she specifically paid for an aisle seat. Most airlines randomly assign you or you can choose to pay for a specific seat, which most people travelling alone on a short flight wouldn’t bother with. No travelling with a baby doesn’t make you “special” but if you’ve ever done it you’d know how difficult and stressful it can be. The woman shouldn’t have acted like she was entitled to the seat but if everyone was a little more kind and accommodating to each other (eg. giving up your seat to an elderly person on a bus) then the world would be a much nicer place to live. Reminds me of the time I was stuck in a packed airport overnight with loads of delayed flights with my dad & sister when I was about 12. There were very few places to sit and we finally secured two rows of seats facing each other that we could lie down on for a bit (everyone else was lying across seats too) and a woman with a baby came along and I got up to give her some of our space and my dad went mental at me. Gave me a proper row for letting her sit down and giving her “our space”. I remember secretly feeling smug cos I knew I was the better person and thinking I’d rather live in a world of people like me than people like him (maybe not that related but just triggered that memory)

I've not ever compared the laws. I've only corrected people saying or acting as if it is universal. Especially since the OP isn't in Europe or the UK.

You were factually incorrect in your post and I corrected that. Nothing to do with one country being right/wrong or better/worse. You said it was an international guideline. It is not.

For many years it’s been the case that infants on laps are provided with seatbelts attached to the parent’s belt.
I flew a lot with dds as babies at various stages over 40 years ago, so they’re a long established thing.

Mind you the best ever was the ‘skycots’ for small babies on the good old VC10s (aeons ago) - a carry cot - with restraining straps - that plugged into the hat rack - if anyone remembers those! You could reach up from your seat and gently rock the cradle if needed.

You are part of the problem with society today.

It was a 90 minute flight. You're on your own so no one you need to sit with. You could have been a decent human being and offered to move.

Your entitlement is astounding!