To ask for your advice/ thoughts re my marriage

[Justrealised]

Posting shamelessly for traffic. Need advice but won't get chance to duscuss in real life with people i trust for a few weeks.

We have two ds; one at uni and one with severe disabilities. We've been married over 20 years, i'm sah due to ds2's disabilities.

We married before we were both mature enough to understand what we were doing. I'm nc with my dm, dh has a complex relationship with his elderly relatives (low contact) and is an only child, we live about three hours drive away from them in decent driving conditions.

I've reached breaking point this week in my marriage. Dh's parents are hard work and have interferred since we got together, dfil goes out of his way to say cruel/ rude things whenever he can. Dh has sometimes stood up for me over the years and sometimes not- i've always stood up for myself but i shouldn't have to. Dh made excuses for him this week when he said somethig about me and something went inside me, i just can't do it any more. They don't have that much contact with us so it isn't like this is a monthly thing with dfil. They are in their 80's.

Dh is now sleeping in the spare room and when we talk says he's realised how controlling his parents are and how he thinks he's been conditioned from childhood. I wonder if he's just creating excuses or saying what he thinks i want to hear because it's clear i'm at the end of my tether. The last time it happened he promised it would be the last but it wasn't. So, he's had 20 years to realise this, it's convenient that he's come to this conclusion now.

Things have been coming to a head for about a year now, maybe it's peri and i just can't tolerate the cral anymore?

I don't believe he's cheated, i've not either. There isn't any abuse. We're under a lot of stress with ds2 and everything that comes with having a severely disabled child. I'm not sure counselling would work.

Just looking for views or advice really.

It sounds like husband doesn't want to argue with his elderly parents, and that makes perfect logical sense IMO. If his dad is 80 years old, he is not going to give 2 cents about what he said to you or how he could have said it differently, etc. Just stop putting so much value into what his parents say to you. Stop caring so much. And if/when they do make an off hand comment towards you, let it go in one ear and out the other. Jesus was crucified and yet He still asked for forgiveness towards his tormentors. If Jesus can get tortured and still be merciful towards humanity, mere words should not cause us such distress that we are questioning a 20 year long marriage!

We has humans would want anyone we loved to defend us if someone is talking bad about us, offending us, slandering our name behind our back, etc. I completely understand that you want your husband to do that for you with his parents. But at the same time, his parents are way too old to change, and I think instead of letting this grow even more out of proportion, you should come to a truce with your husband and be honest with him. Tell him it really hurts you when he doesn't stand up for you, but that you don't expect him to do it anymore, and that you are not going to let the cruel words and/or actions of your in-laws take an effect on your mental health any more.

I'd try or retry counselling.

I think your husband has been conditioned by an abusive father (and mother) to behave in a certain way.

You can certainly say you cannot take it any more but maybe he, or the two of you, could get counselling to move forward.

If you do still love your husband, I would not let your abusive fil destroy that. I'd say your dh has a choice. Disengage from abusive parents and focus on re-enage in marriage and YOU. And if he is willing to do that he could move out of spare room!

It’s difficult.

Of course FIL’s comments are awful. But I do think it’s difficult for DH. He’s been conditioned to love these people, he’s probably seen a better side to them at points. I think it’s kind of normal for him to give the benefit of the doubt or try to find an explanation, rather than an excuse.

If it’s your DS2 which means you have to keep in touch with them then TBH I’d stop the visits with DS2 and try to save the marriage for the time being (you can tell FIL yourself that you’ll visit with DS2 once FIL can behave in a civilised fashion, until then it’s FaceTime or he can pay for a nurse/ carer to accompany your DH).

I can’t imagine what they could be saying that is this upsetting but can be brushed aside by dh as “he’s just a bit thick”, which is what your description sounds like. Why can’t you just tell the old git to stop saying things like that to you?

Also, I may have misunderstood but if your DS needs 2 adults to look after him safely and your DH won’t take him on his own (even to his godawful parents), then how would things work if you split up? Would you continue to live together?

I totally understand your hurt at not feeling that DH has stood up for you over the years. He should defend you and he shouldn't make excuses for FIL. However, I do think we unfortunately fall back into the patterns of our childhood and he obviously has a long history of not standing up to them - it probably causes him great anxiety to think about doing that.

You know that many marriages don't withstand the difficulties of having a child with severe disabilities - the fact that you have stuck together all this time is testament to your ability to pull together and weather life's storms. We have an adult son with severe disabilities and I know that sometimes has put a great strain on our marriage - at times, I didn't think we would make it. But we've been married 35 years and we've been through a lot and I'm glad that we're still together. At the end of the day, it would be much harder to face life's ups and downs alone.

If you still have love and affection for your DH, I would think very carefully before breaking up. His parents are elderly and won't be around much longer. You can and should refuse to have any more contact with them and let DH go and see them alone if he wants to. Don't ask him if theyve said anything about you - their opinions are not important and you don't need to hear about them.

I think that you love each other is important, and not to be thrown away lightly, but I am not suggesting your concerns are light.

You don’t say how old your DS2 is, but you have been a SAHM to care for him given his disabilities. This means, however much you love him (meaning DS2 here), it is your life which has been more affected. In being unkind to you, they are dismissing and devaluing this enormous and selfless act of love and care, which has no doubt enabled their son, your DH, to continue his working life when you have given up yours. That deserves recognition and kindness, not unpleasantness.

Now you might not frame it like that, but you have run the home for your family and care for DS2 and that’s been at a cost to you. So your DH absolutely should defend you to the hilt because your family, including him, has massively relied on you to function.

And I just wonder how much of you saying ‘enough now’ is because life is passing by and it’s too short not to be recognised and valued. But if your DH values and recognises and listens in every other respect, then maybe it’s about being kind to each other and finding a way through. Your DH cannot change his parents and maybe there is already enough to manage without the emotional rupture with his parents. But you also need to feel listened to and valued as well.

@Justrealisedhe is supportive but would ideally prefer us to have a relationship. It’s not been easy for him to see my point of view about being low contact but he can see how over years and years she’s continually disrespected me so he can’t really argue it.

Thank you all. I've been thinking about all your replies. I asked him to take a half day from work so we can talk via a message (easier so i don't interrupt a meeting etc). He called me back and said how about Wednesday as it'll be frowned on if it's tomorrow. Then said sod it i'll book tomorrow as an emergency appointment. This made me angry, it felt like just another way he doesn't prioritise me or our marriage.

I really can't tgink straight at all. As a one off each of the things thats hurring me aren't a big deal. It's just all of them added together, again and again.

@butternut123 thank you for sharing that and being honest.

I agree it's highly likely he's telling you what he think you want to hear, and that at his age after all this time, it's very doubtful he will suddenly start standing up to his parents to support you. So really you have to decide whether to accept that this is who he is, and this is something you need to come to terms with, or whether it's a deal breaker.
Because on one hand, you could say, the snidey remarks of an unpleasant old man are not that important, and while it would he nice if they were challenged, it wouldnt make a lot of difference to your life. And that separating will bring a lot of upheaval, financial strain and extra work which will be hard given your responsibility to your DD.
On the other, if you feel you can't like or respect your H anymore because of this, can't put up with it any longer and would be happier on your own, then separating is best.

yes, I think from the interaction you describe about him saying first of all, Wednesday, it sounds like he was thinking aloud, probably surrounded by work pressures and then getting to the point of hold on, Justrealised is asking for my time during work, it must be important but that was not his starting point. However, he did get there.

I was thinking about this on my way home and I wonder what you do to prioritise yourself. So it’s not just about him prioritising you and your marriage although of course this is important, but also making time for you, and ensuring you have time to be you as well and that you and your needs are seen and met. Does that make sense? I just wonder if you are exhausted and that is why you feel you cannot think straight and he shouldn’t need to be told this but he does need to be.

Why are you handing your DC over to a covert narcissist who you can't cope with, and who can say/do whatever she likes while you're not there to intervene? 😨 That's not good parenting.

OP I wouldn't have anything to do with his parents ever again, they wouldn't get one last chance at my home, they'd be NC and blocked on everything as of now. DH can see them himself if he wants, without the DC, but I'd not be wanting to hear about how difficult he finds them or what they've said to upset him. Don't be his enabler, shoring him up so he can keep tolerating their abuse.

The part about realising the situation after 20yrs isn't unusual. It's often only when people gain life experience, and in your case finally understand the risk of losing his marriage, that they finally really look at situations and start to see those situations for what they are. When you're brought up in that environment it is your normal, it's all you know, you're conditioned to accept it without questioning or arguing back and you can honestly not understand how abnormal it all is.

DH definitely needs solo therapy from someone who's understands dysfunctional family dynamics.

Maybe you should have marriage counselling together to see whether you can find a way through this or whether you need to break up. You don't have to enter counselling with that answer already known.

It's going to depend on whether DH is willing to fully and wholeheartedly have your back in future. He's let you down, disappointed and upset you, stood by while his family abuse you. For that he needs to apologise and mean it, then change his ways going forward. Otherwise there's no hope.

If you're done and you don't want to put all that work in though, then that's ok too. As someone famous said, you don't exist to be a rehab centre for this damaged man. If you don't think he's worth the wait to see if he can change, then it's fine to bail.

I know what you mean about that feeling of something snapping inside you, sometimes it's a fundamental mindset shift that you just can't go back on (and often shouldn't).

It's ok to be angry he's thrown you under the bus for years for the sake of not having to stand up to his parents. Even if the reason is he grew up their victim and he knew no better. At some point he became an adult, if he doesn't speak to you that way then somewhere inside him he knows it's wrong, if he stopped to think about it. Possibly with your disabled DC it's never given you two any real space to look at your own lives and extended family dynamics, until now when your DC are growing up.

Whether all this is marriage ending is up to you to decide. I'm sure you don't have to decide tonight. If DH is not abusive towards you then take your time to figure it all out and make your choice.

He called me back and said how about Wednesday as it'll be frowned on if it's tomorrow. Then said sod it i'll book tomorrow as an emergency appointment.

This says to me that he's heard himself as he spoke, pulled himself up on it and corrected himself. Having realised it is, in fact, an emergency. That's good, in as much as you didn't have to be the one to correct him. It shows there's scope for him to change and a desire to do so. You're not wrong to feel angry or voice it, but I wouldn't write him off over this alone. See where you're at after you've spoken.

What kind of things does he say to you?

I wanted to come back and explain where i'm upto. Writing it down like this is helpful and some of your posts have really made me think- thank you.

He took the time off and we talked when ds was at school so no interuptions and we could be open without wondering what/ if he understood anything.

He said a lot of what has been written on here. He said everything i could reasonably want to here and told me he loved me etc repeatedly. That night after we'd all gone to bed i thought about asking him to sleep back in our bed but didn't (not for sex just for comfort, it's strange sleeping without him). He's still in the spare room.

He said he would prioritise me and he realises that his father is awful and his behaviour was too. He repeated that he knew he had let me down. He wants to work on the marriage and himself and isn't sure how to move forward with his dad. He admitted that his dad used to him for really minor things with a slipper and said when looking back he realised at a young age to do what his dad wants or get punished (he has tokd me he was hit as a child but not in so much detail). He said he feels and recognises that when he's around them he does revert back into being like a child rather than man with a wife, kids and other responsibilities which he says will stop. The thing is, if it's that easy to stop why has he spent 50 odd years like this and the 20 odd of out marriage? I don't believe he can just flick a switch and things will be different, if so surely he would have done that a long time ago.

I heard him on the phone to his mum as he orders their food shop for delivery for them and i felt angry, i couldn't help it- they were talking about his dad.

I'm not sure how to settle/ separate his relationship with his dad/ parents and ours. Obviously i don't have to have anything to do with them but i imagine that they will need increased help/ support or just conversations with him the older and the more their helth deteriates they get and dh will need support managing that. Fil was admitted to hospital in November with heart failure complications (swollen legs and flu). He's stabilised on meds but still undergoing tests etc and with his age i imagine things won't get better and even if they do it'll be used as an excuse for them to need more from dh.

I do love dh but just can't work things out in my own head about this.

It's good your husband has acknowledged the things that hurt you and also recognised the patterns of behaviour stemmed from his childhood.

I'm sorry but there will be no quick fix for this. But you're allowed to forgive your husband and not his father and you can continue to limit your contact with FIL. Trying to predict the future needs they will have is impossible - just focus on the next right step for you.

Why do you think you need to distance yourself from your husband still? He is not his father - however upset his parents made you you didn't marry them. It sounds like you want to punish your husband still. Is this perhaps something from your own childhood - did you not feel heard/seen, were you expected to be perfect, were you punished for others' actions?

Dh didn't stand up for with fil on a number of occassions. This isn't about punishment it's about not wanting to mix signals. He's also said that he wants to take it easy for my benefit as he knows how much i'm hurt.

I did have a difficult childhood but i'm quite far into my journey with that and as much as i'm sure it's shaped my persomality and how i react and feel about things i'm sure that at the moment for both our sakes this is the best course.

most couples have a thing op, a horrible stumbling block that makes both feel hard done by. It sounds like that’s all that’s wrong, this huge thing that ye need to learn to navigate, a huge thing that you both analyse to the hilt. I think you’re slightly unfair wanting a blanket promise that he’d defend you no matter what- if his family are difficult but he still loves them he can’t spend the whole time fighting them if that’s the type of people they are. I think if you break up you’ll make your life a lot more miserable (and I’m not anti break ups or divorces but just you sound like a fit, but a team that’s been through the grinder) hugs whatever happens

Op in your position I’d propose that you refuse to have anything further to do with his parents. If they can’t see your son unless you accompany him to their home. Ok then, well they won’t see your son will they. Stop putting other’s needs first for a change and prioritise your own well being. If your partner is sincere in his remorse, he will respect your choice. After some months you can reassess how you feel about your marriage.

i think maybe there are two separate things which may be interlinked.
the first is that you open your OP by saying that you and your DH got married before you were old enough to know what you were doing. This implies that with hindsight or more experience, you might have made a different decision. If I understand this correctly, what you are saying goes right to the foundations of your marriage - because there is the element of ‘I would have or should have done something different, not got married so young, not got married without more experience’. That’s both a sad and a destructive thought.

Then you say you both love each other. I do think this matters. Despite thinking with hindsight you should not have got married so young, you have managed between you to develop love and the kind of relationship where it sounds like he is trying to listen and trying to make things work. I don’t know, when I have stood up to my parents in the past about my relationship choices and marriage, all hell rained down on me. Like, this was not just a childhood fear holding over, they behaved in ways I will not even begin to describe. So you are imagining a world where it could have been better if DH stood up for you, but there is also a world where it is worse.

I think having laid out the issues, if you value your marriage, then it is a case of looking for practical solutions. Is there money to pay someone closer to them to do practical tasks they need? Are there ways of taking you out the picture at visits? What are the practical solutions which make your life easier and disentangle DH in a way which he can manage. (I am single now and have been for a long time because I don’t really know how to have a relationship, your DH sounds like he is trying, maybe not always very well and for the most part, you are both doing well under a lot of pressure).

Then I would come back around to the question of the ‘what if?’. What is missing from your life that is not about DH, that you did not get a chance to do because you got married younger or without experience, and what does making that good look like? It’s about being stronger in your own self so that his parents do not matter so much. Is the problem that they are getting older and need more time really that it gives you less time? (Which is legitimate) or is it that they are mean?

And if you want him back in bed with you, tell him that. The problems won’t go away but the distance between you might reduce a bit.

I wonder OP if your thoughts are clouded by your relationship with your own DM? You say you are NC with her? I wonder do you think your DH should be NC with his parents too? You can’t decide that for him, you can only decide that for yourself. I recommend you put aside the guilt you keep referring to, and go full NC with your PIL? If your DH wants to take your DC to see his parents, let him, and don’t go yourself. Yes I understand your DC needs two adults to look after him (I wonder if you split, how you will and separately how your DH will cope with DC when you each have him in your care if this is the case?), but this is on your DH to sort. He’s been told enough times that you won’t tolerate the way your FIL speaks to you, so take yourself out of the situation. I would cease punishing your DH for the fact that he’s not ready / doesn’t want to / isn’t willing to go NC with his own parents, and you control the only person you can in this situation: yourself. I think marriage counselling would help you both.