Swimming pool toilets

[Werehalfwaythere]

Just sense checking whether this is an issue or not in most people’s minds and it kind of is for me, but I don’t want to make a fuss for nothing.

The local leisure centre is having renovation works to its changing rooms which has halved the space and left only one toilet available - marked for females. Toilets are small with hardly any space to stand unless in a cubicle. The changing rooms are manic, especially after swimming lessons.

The renovations have been going on for a few months now and I’ve noticed each week after my kids lessons that the male cleaner enters the female toilets very regularly. I was waiting outside the cubicle my son was in and observed the male cleaner going in there 3 times in 5mins. Now, I’m not trying to suggest it’s illegitimate reasons as I’m sure the toilets get horrid very quickly with so many people using them and probably very slippery too.

The reasons I feel uncomfortable;

1. it’s so tiny that young girls often go in alone, hardly any space to stand outside the cubicles.
2. there’s no signage to say a male is in there at anytime. I wouldn’t know if he was in there if I sent my daughter in for example.
3. it’s not a unisex toilet - it’s clearly marked for females only.
4. As it’s a swimming pool changing room, everyone is in the equivalent of underwear and very exposed. For the average person it means nothing, but a solo man around young girls in costumes alone makes me feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable about this and that it’s an unnecessary safeguarding risk? The leisure centre is a big one, why wouldn’t they assign a female cleaner whilst the work is undergoing and the changing rooms are chaos?

Perhaps I’m being over sensitive about it so I’d value your thoughts!

If it doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t.

your post isn’t clear though. There is one cubicle for females? Is that right? But no space for a parent to wait outside? Can it be locked?

the cleaner going in - was this after a person had been in each time?

They may not be able to have a female cleaner at that time. I suppose it depends on shifts etc but it should definitely be clear there may be a male attendant imo. And signs through the changing room if he’s in there too.

id definitely be raising it OP.

The title of this thread sounds like it could be the title of Ed Sheeran’s latest single

Toilets are a separate small room, in that, there are two lockable cubicles, two sinks and a small space to stand whilst washing hands.

Cleaner went in various times. As I was outside the toilets, I’m not sure if people were in there or not each time.

It’s always him and he’s doing a great job maintaining the space. I just think, if everything’s chaos and there’s young children using the toilet, potentially alone, why not use a female cleaner?

It’s probably absolutely fine but I get uncomfortable feelings about it. This is probably cruel to say but he also just looks strange, I know that’s unkind of me.

🤣

As a mother of a young girl who go’s swimming a lot.. this wouldn’t be something I would think about. Like how is the make cleaner gonna act or see anything different in the toilet to in the (i assume) unisex changing room?

So one cubicle male and one female? With a male attendant for both as they are in the same space?

I don’t think a male attendant is unreasonable in that situation but it should be signposted so parents are aware.

in the kindest way OP, do you have a history of abuse which is contributing to your feelings of unease?

It's a bit confusing - so the changing rooms themselves are mixed cubicles, like a changing village, given you were there with your son? But there's only one toilet within the changing rooms which is marked female. In that case where do the males go when they need to use the loo?

YANBU in that the toilet should have a sign up saying "a cleaner of either sex might be present" or similar.

However YABU to suggest that a cleaner shouldn't be going in and out of a toilet! Regardless of how large the leisure centre is I doubt they have multiple cleaning staff available at all times!

As pps have said, what is he going to get the opportunity to see/do when someone is in a locked toilet cubicle that he isn't at equal or higher potential of being able to see walking through the changing room to get to the toilet?

If you were paying enough attention to keep track of how often he went in and out, how come you didn't notice whether anyone else came in or left?

Perhaps people were in there which was why he had to leave and come back - because he can't clean a cubicle if someone is in it!

Making judgements on how he looks is very U as well.

If the toilets can only be reached by accessing the female only space it should not be used or accessed by any male person while the area is in opperation (and in an ideal world ever).

So no
The staff/manager should not be allowing a male cleaner access because that creates a safeguarding hole

• for the staff member as you already are looking at him and rightly asking why is he there and why is he been given access to young children and women.

• for young children and women because sex offenders dont come with handy lables but they to tend to seek out jobs which may give them access to a victim.

Safeguarding recognises that women can also sex offend so nobody is a "safe" person.

But keeping a female space a female (and young children) spaces leaves every woman and child exposed to the same risk profile.

The management should look at the staffing arrangements and at a minimum invest in one of the cleaning in progress signs.

And if he is going in so often I would question why the users are leaving the toilets in such a poor state as to require 5 or 10 min inspections

What’s the cleaner “cleaning” that necessitates him being around the changing area so much?

Would you be upset if the police contacted you and said they found a video and he is likely up in court for trading images?

Isn’t it usually the case that the cleaner’s cupboard is in the loos? So is he going in and out for supplies or to put the mop away etc? I don’t think the Equality Act would allow you to recruit or deploy a cleaner by sex, so there wouldn’t be a way to guarantee a female cleaner, though of course a sign to say a male attendant might be inside would be good practice.

But if you sense something more going on, you can of course raise it with management and see what they say.

My thinking was that he has lots of opportunities to be alone with young girls in the toilet. He can follow them in. I’m not talking about watching children, I’m talking about the potential of him acting in an inappropriate way in private, alone with young children.

In the changing room, there are more eyes to see what’s going on and usually parents close by in view.

No, it a female only toilet located within the chainring room area. No male cubicles there. Men and boys have to use the toilet located outside the changing rooms.

Boys and men use the male toilet located outside the changing room. It’s unusual as they’re doing renovations.

There are two lockable cubicles within one larger female toilets room, I hope that makes sense. Girls could be by the sinks alone with him, he could also forcibly enter a cubicle or access if a young child didn’t lock the door. I’m not saying he will - I’m saying it’s a risk.

Its the same reason why I don’t send my 5yr old into the men’s toilets alone - I don’t feel comfortable with a man being alone with my child in the toilets.

The toilets don’t have the cleaners cupboard.

Why do you think the cleaner is a potential sexual abuser ? That a bit paranoid raise it with management that he needs to anounce himself and be dbs checked

The announcement is law, I thought. Maybe I’m wrong.

All humans are potential sexual abusers, men more so. Men alone with young girls in toilets in swimming costumes - even more so.

I haven’t once said I think he’s a sexual abuser. I’m concerned the leisure centre is not doing enough to safeguard against risky situations.

At my pool, the female toilets and showers are in one room. A man walking in would not 'see' anything as the showers and toilets are all in enclosed cubicles. But if a male cleaner/lifeguard needs to come into to clean or check something, they stand at the door and shout 'anyone in?' and if there is, they wait until the room is empty to go in. They do not go in if there are women or girls in there.

Because sex offender dont come with handy signs?

DBS checks for known sex offenders who have already come to the attention of the police who have to have an evidence (victim) based reason to make a disclosure.

Yes management should safeguard the employee by changing their process.

Its never paranoid to think about safeguarding

God the gaslighting and ‘wouldn't bother me’ complacency is exactly how men get away with criminal activity.

It’s the same mentality that thought boarding school teachers, BBC presenters and Catholic priests were all just innocent men ‘doing their job’ in the 60s and 70s. Some of them were. But some weren’t.

This is why safeguarding was brought it in the first place. Institutions should be protecting children’s safety with robust universal policies that apply to everyone. Then children are more likely to be safe whether their useless parents give a shit or not.

Op I’d ask them what their safeguarding policy is with regards to the single sex changing room.

So at what age will you be allowing your 5 year old to use the men's toilet alone, if there's a male cleaner?

At an age I see appropriate. It will likely be child specific.

So what happens when the other parents don't want your son around their daughters in the girls toilets, while they're wearing swimsuits etc?

But you still see it as appropriate?

It's not that simple is it?

As I'm sure it's not that simple to find a female cleaner to cover this man's shift.

I really can’t understand your point?

That a male child, likely under 10, is just as risky as a grown man?

Sorry, I think you’re reaching. Does your job involve any safeguarding? Mine does, perhaps that’s why we have different perspectives on risk and safeguarding.

There are lots of free safeguarding training courses available, you may find them enlightening. No pressure but they’re useful in every aspect of life, especially when making decisions to keep your children safe.

@LadyTable and the vast majority of cleaners in the UK are female, so why would you assume it’s hard to find a female cleaner?