To think that gentle parenting only works with kids that were easygoing anyway

[Thingything]

Just this.

I live in a yummy mummy part of the UK where gentle parenting is all the rage. Where the parents have kids who are, shall we say, spirited, it seems the result is kids who turn into utter monsters with no sense of boundaries and terrorize their parents.

I also have friends who gentle parent and their kids are delightful and sweet. Though those kids are the ones that even in baby groups would be sat, listening nicely, playing with a toy. I'm going to say 'compliant kids'.

Maybe this is because gentle parenting is based on a lot of talking, so you need kids with a reasonably developed sense of listening, patience and understanding to really apply it, and with some kids that doesn't develop until older.

Interested whether it's just me who has noticed this - and indeed if anyone has successfully managed to do a full Ockwell-Smith on a spirited / not naturally compliant child and can prove me wrong!

Gentle parenting is more successful with more affluent, intelligent parents.
It takes more attention to the child's actions. It takes more communication. It takes less digital devices. It takes more outside activities. It takes a child to be higher intelligence (Due to parental intelligence) than others. It even takes a better diet for the child and the family. It takes consistency. It takes rules and time.

I completely disagree

This is PARENTING, it has nothing to do with "gentle parenting"

I don't think the majority of the population can make gentle parenting work.
because gentle parenting is a label that rarely means anything, but those who use it just like to pretend it's their style. It's more likely to be passive and lazy parents who think they are superior because they let their kids go wild.

No one needs a label, you parent as you can and as well as you can and you learn as you go along, because all children are different, circumstances are different. When you start using a label, you are only looking for excuses.

I think the opposite. I think compliant children will put up with much more…non gentle…parenting. It works short term, although who knows what the long term impact might be. Less compliant kids need more affirmation and acceptance-which feels like a long way round, but isn’t, really.

Whenever I see criticism of gentle parenting, it's people who don't know what it entails. Most often, people are complaining about permissive parenting because they cling to the control/punishment and reward model they were raised with and prefer to piss on people who try to do better, or mock permissive parents, because it's easier to deflect than sort themselves out. In about 20 years I've never seen a genuine critique of why it's harmful, because people are never talking about gentle parenting when they attempt to bash it. Being respectful, having knowledge of age-appropriate developmental abilities, and working with your child to meet their needs, is never going to end badly or "not work" with any personality type. Some children are more sensitive or have greater needs, but respectful parenting and helping children to develop emotional awareness and the skills they need to manage themselves appropriately is always positive.

A lot of people are a product of controlling parenting themselves, and are still very triggered when they're met with difficult emotions and 'disobedience'. Rather than working on themselves and coregulating, some snap and justify their poor parenting by saying it's the only way. They refuse to believe that modelling empathy and respect leads to empathetic, respectful young people, which is as silly as it is sad.

My parenting probably fell into the (proper definition) of gentle parenting. It wasn’t permissive and it wasn’t wet lettuce. I treated my kids with respect and had attainable standards. I was fortunate that they were pretty easy going generally, even my eldest, who was harder work than my youngest. But I’m not sure what came first.

Because a lot of punishment comes from emotional dystegulation in adults (I say adults rather than parents because I've seen it in school too - where the 'consequence is disproportionate to the misdemeanour).

Punishment is often about making a child feel bad or retaliation.

The language evolved to consequence to try and move away from that.

Reading through the replies, maybe I wasn’t gentle parenting!
I absolutely would not have allowed him to bite or kick people. I’d have physically removed him. I wouldn’t have shouted at him after though, it wouldn’t work to stop him doing same again.

seeing at how many of the ones who insist on using the label "gentle parent"
are showing the complete opposite of "empathy, respect" for anyone who doesn't use the same label

I am not sure you are making the point you think you are making

I gentle parent my 4 year old (although I’m confused by your addendum about not saying no - I’ve never heard of that before and I certainly say no). She was a very difficult baby and young toddler. Very spirited, lots of screeching, very defiant, emotionally dysregulated etc. I just plugged on staying calm, modelling emotional regulation and gently holding boundaries without ever yelling or punishing. She gradually started to mirror me and now at 4 never has full blown tantrums (still gets upset when things don’t go her way of course, but seeks comfort and coregulation rather than kicking off), is gentle and empathetic and has turned into a lovely, affectionate wee girl. Still strong minded and pretty stubborn, but treats others well and expects the same in return. I’ve no regrets.

Or maybe they’re human. I think it’s asking a huge amount from parents to expect them to manage competing demands at the same time as ensuring every is safe, where they need to be one time and in order with endless patience.

I also think parenting means responding to new, unexpected and challenging situations constantly, and while I’d love to think I can remain calm and engaged in every circumstance the reality is I don’t always manage it. I’ve snapped at my kids, raised my voice, set boundaries and yes, imposed punishment at times.

They aren’t harmed or damaged because the relationships are solid, we fix things, apologise where we need to. Parenting is primarily relationship based and relationships can be tricky.

I thought it's been scientifically proven that gentle parenting means poor future outcomes?

No. What I mean is that I do not necessarily engage in discussions with him. I do when the time is right, but often if he's behaving in a way that isn't right, I'll be straight and firm with him and I will not be engaging in explanations, choices, options or discussions. I don't consider his age or personality to always lend itself to this approach. I also fundamentally believe that as parents we don't always need to explain ourselves. We are here to set safe boundaries for them and sometimes that's all they need, there is no need to constantly engage and elaborate.

Do I raise my voice? Sometimes I do. I avoid it, but it happens sometimes. I also disengage at times. I don't sit with him in the room if he tantrums for comfort (fortunately that's very, very rare now). I don't debate with him if he's moody and stubborn for the sake of it. He knows when he's pushed too far. I don't suffocate him with my constant presence and never have, we never co-slept, never spent hours in the night getting up to attend to him or sleep on the floor. Never bent over backwards to please him even when he was going through tantrums when he was younger. I rarely negotiate. I value my time and his time, we do things together but also separately.

I just fundamentally do not believe we are there to explain everything to the point of life being sucked out of us to appease our children. Gentle parenting involves too much engagement in my view, it's unnecessary. Children learn through exposure to society and boundaries, as they mature, not through endless discussions that are frequently not developmentally appropriate and unsettling, and they create unhealthy focus on individual needs at the expense of others.

Is it? From a loving parent? I don’t think kids should be shielded from the realities of their behaviour personally. Children shouldn’t frequently be told they’re lazy, but they won’t explode if they hear it once, when thy refuse to follow instructions.

That's just semantics - your consequence bears a very strong resemblance to a punishment. Being forced to leave an activity you are enjoying is a punishment. Having a toy you like confiscated is a punishment.

I particularly dislike the term 'natural consequence' - for most of history & for most children worldwide the natural consequence of behaviour their parent or teacher doesn't like is being hit. Which is the same in animals, so is very much a natural response. A kitten annoying its mum will get a smack.

Also not convinced a young child will register the difference between 'that behaviour is naughty' and 'you are naughty'.

Agree with this. I have two ND DC, the older one definitely responds better to firm rules and boundaries and would have had no idea what to do with "kind hands, darling" or any of the other stuff you hear at toddler groups. He has terrible impulse control and is not great at reading facial expressions, but he does pick up on a change of tone/volume of voice. So I'm sure other parents think I'm a shouty mum sometimes, but often it's the best way to make him understand when his behaviour is neagtively impacting others, as he can't pick up the more subtle cues. Then once he's stopped the behaviour, we can have a sensible conversation with him about what just happened.

You have literally just described gentle parenting, not sure where you got the idea that gentle parenting doesn’t include the word ‘no’…

Her books came long after many parents were doing gentle parenting (my child was a teenager by the time she published her first book), and only represent one view point on how to do it.

We did say ‘no’ but along with ‘no’ was always an explanation as to why and alternative options offered.

Distraction only works for so long and surely you’re guessing isn’t 100% accurate? I haven’t heard of “proactive parenting” but then I my children are young adults now.

We did do proactive things in terms of SEND, which was to avoid triggers that caused meltdowns and to set up a way our child to let us know when they were beginning to feel overwhelmed so we could then get them home before they hit meltdown.

My parents shamed me all the time. It’s a type of emotional abuse.

These are not loving things to say. If you said similar “stop whining you’re not a manchild” to a work colleague, you’d be disciplined.

I tend to agree. Turns out I (mostly) gentle parented before I even knew it was a kid. It was a lot of work, but at the same time, quite easy and it was quite instinctive because she was(and still is) a pretty easy going/good kid.

@GrooveArmada
I just fundamentally do not believe we are there to explain everything to the point of life being sucked out of us to appease our children. Gentle parenting involves too much engagement in my view, it's unnecessary. Children learn through exposure to society and boundaries, as they mature, not through endless discussions that are frequently not developmentally appropriate and unsettling, and they create unhealthy focus on individual needs at the expense of others.

Explanations behind parental decisions are not appeasement. In addition, many children with SEN, especially an autistic one like mine, cannot learn through exposure to society. That’s part of their disability. Discussions are always on an age appropriate level, there is nothing in gentle parenting that is inappropriate. It gives children guidance on how to meet their needs in a way that isn’t at the expense of others.

I suspect that is profession dependent.

I’m not a gentle parenting purist and not evangelical about it either as I think there are multiple routes to being a good parent with well adjusted, considerate and confident children. The philosophy has given me a lot, though, in terms of parenting without shaming, helping my children to learn to self regulate and understand why their behaviour is wrong rather than just complying because I punish them if they don’t. It also helps me with my own emotional regulation, which can only be a positive example to them. It doesn’t need to involve lengthy explanations, especially for young children for whom it is developmentally inappropriate anyway. For a young child, something like “we put on our seat belts to stay safe” or “No, I can’t let you hit” and moving the child away will suffice. A discussion when a child is highly dysregulated is never a good idea and isn’t something I’ve seen promoted.

Tonight my young daughter received a present which was a pretty bag but she got upset because there was nothing in it. I could have shamed her by telling her she was ungrateful and getting into a power struggle by insisting she apologise and say thank you in the moment. That’s what my parents would have done and I would probably have been punished at home too. But, I do agree with the idea that an insincere apology doesn’t teach that much, except social etiquette. This is important, but I think discipline is about more than conforming to expectations. Instead, I removed her in a non angry way, acknowledged that she was sad because there wasn’t anything in the bag and then we had a quick age appropriate conversation about gifts. Sometimes, we don’t get what we want, it’s normal to feel disappointed, but that behaviour is not ok and can make the gift giver sad when they have done something kind. Of her own accord, she then went and thanked the person. Within a while, she was appreciating the gift more and she did eventually apologise too. In the future, I’ll try and make an effort to model the desired behaviour to her and remind her in situations where there might be gifts. I prefer that to more punitive methods as I think there is more learning, especially in the long run.

i don’t give that example to pretend I’m a perfect parent who never raises my voice or makes mistakes. Far from it! It was just an example of how I handled a situation without a huge amount of unnecessary engagement and how I think acknowledgement of feelings can help with self regulation for both their benefit and that of other people. That has all come from my research into gentle parenting.

I think some people can take some aspects of it to extremes, especially in some of the suggested ‘scripts’ I’ve seen in parenting groups. That’s the kind of thing that seems to garner most attention. That, plus it being mistaken for permissive parenting. I also think ‘natural consequences’ can sometimes be quite harsh in all honesty. However, I think it’s important not to paint it all with the same brush or make blanket statements. The one thing it is not about, though, is appeasing children and bending over backwards to accommodate them!

I would say I would probably be classes a a 'gentle parent' , in the main at least.

My DCs are in their 20s now. I have become friends with the teacher who used to be their head of 6th form and taught them when they were lower down the school. She has always described them both as 'magnificent'.

DC2 is neurodivergent and fairly feisty. DC1 is very calm.

My experience in CAMHS probably aligns with some of this, but not all. My first CAMHS ed psych role was in an economically deprived inner city area, and gentle parenting was definitely not the cause of child and adolescent MH and behavioural issues there. However, in a more affluent, leafy middle class suburban type area, I'd say it was more of an issue. I'm not sure I'd exactly say it was "gentle" parenting, more a strange mix of permissive and helicopter parenting that often contributed, particularly to anxiety, teens not able to cope with small things like getting a bad mark on a piece of homework or falling out with a friend. Parents who couldn't tolerate their child having any negative emotion and run in to fix every situation that could make them sad or frustrated, no matter how minor. Kids with no confidence in their own agency or capability.

I don't think it's the reason why there's more SEN or ADHD diagnoses. That's a multi factored phenomenon. However, the wrong mix of parenting style and SEN child, with parents who are so fixed on one way of doing things and can't adapt, undoubtedly has an impact on how ADHD traits are expressed and exacerbates problematic behaviours. One thing I will say is that ADHD kids who are given unlimited screen time, have a lot of UPF and sugar in their diet and little outdoor play/physical activity such as sports tend to show more of the problematic behaviours associated with ADHD, and to a more severe degree, and in every case where families were able to implement changes in those areas, problem behaviours reduced after an adjustment period. That process is incompatible with a purist gentle parenting approach, because it does require the adults to impose structure and parents need to say no and withhold things a child may want because it's not good for them.

100% my son was 4 yr old acting up at a birthday party once and I was trying to pull him into line by being firm yet calm (saying "No; we do not throw. If you do that again we will go home"). One parent suggested - "why dont you just talk to him and get him to explain his feelings and explain why you dont like that kind of thing."

He just wasn't that deep. The talking it through didnt register his attention, but for her kid it did - she couldn't understand that her parenting tactic that worked brilliantly for her, just wouldn't work for my DC.
Her child was a very deep thinker by contrast. It was good in some respects - but in others it was worse as he got older. He would actually have more of a meltdown when he was 10-11 years old because he felt things so deeply. Everything was the end of the world or an major injustice if he didnt get his way - like if teachers said "no, because you just can't" without a long drawn out round the houses gentle chat. By contrast I feel my DS has a thicker skin and understands the clear boundaries without getting so emotional about them - in a "it is what it is" kind of way.

Both will probably turn out absolutely fine - but if you dont have gentle kids - you cant really gentle parent.