Am I harming my baby?

[0alwepg]

Posting here for traffic. Thanks in advance for reading.

I have an 11 month old (and an older child with SEN). My baby has needed a bottle of milk to nap and sleep from around 5mo. He was sleeping independetly and through the night until then. He has since woken up numerous times for milk overnight also. Now things have settled with my older child, I want to tackle these habits with the baby. He won't rock to sleep. I cannot stay with him until he falls asleep since I cannot leave my older child alone for long. For the past 2 nights I've been feeding him outside of the cot then placing him in the cot awake but tired. I stay with him for a couple of minutes then leave. He cries a lot and I check in on him every 3 minutes until his crying becomes intermittent. On the first day this took around 10 minutes. Today it's taken 4 minutes.

I've paid for a sleep coach to help with both children but I'm struggling with her advice. She's saying that I shouldn't leave him if he sounds upset? He does sound upset and distressed when I leave. I wish I could stay with him which is what she suggests but it's impossible as a single parent. I did for my eldest child and now I'm stuck with a 2 year old who is addicted to her bottle all day and cannot sleep without it. I really didn't want to make the same mistakes with my son but equally I don't want to harm him, give him an attachment disorder later in life, or dysregulate or overwhelm his little nervous system.

Please talk some sense into me!

You’ve done the controlled crying/Ferber method and it’s worked. No need for the sleep consultant who doesn’t sound like she aligns with you anyway. Night 3 will probably 2-3 minutes and then night 4 will likely be nothing. Job well done. Don’t go backwards and undo it.

I sleep trained my children. They’re 21 and 19, very confident young adults and we are extremely close.

It really depends on the baby and it sounds as though controlled crying works for your OP.

4 minutes? Mine cries for longer than that sometimes when they don't get their own way. I don't think they're traumatized so I doubt they're traumatized just because they happen to be in bed.

What countries? How does that even work? What if baby cries for 3 minutes whilst you’re going to the toilet or tending to another DC? Not really relevant to OP who has done controlled crying, which is a totally different thing, but I’m honestly curious. And isn’t that they don’t learn to self soothe they learn no one is coming claim is from a study of severely neglected children in soviet era Romanian orphanages? Super sad but you can’t be applying it to normal kids from normal loving homes.

I think they're banning literature/advice in Denmark, but obviously won't be policing every home.

I sleep trained at 14m, and it was as if he'd been waiting to be shown what to do. He did a bit of standing up and calling after us (I wouldn't even call it upset crying, but calling out as if to say, "hey, this is new").

Then put him down each return. He was alone a total of 12m the first night and was asleep in 5m the second night. He still wakes if he really needs us, and we monitor him more closely if he's unwell.

I hardly think that 17m of our leaving him by himself is going to rewire the other 14 months of attentive care he'd had at that point. The other night he had a nightmare and called for us. Tonight he told Daddy to stop cuddling him because he wanted his bed. So the "they know noone is coming" bit is tosh as far as gentle methods are concerned IMO.

This is completely untrue. No country has banned it, and I can’t find any evidence that any country is considering banning it. Also, this isn’t what the OP is doing.

My baby cried for 20 minutes plus when she was meant to be going to sleep. And that lasted years, with a whole lot of sleep deprivation for both of us. She is now 17 and sitting 4 A levels so I don’t think it did her any harm.

your baby will be fine.

I did something like this

it worked for me. Whenever my baby slipped into patterns of crying and not settling, i repeated the controlled crying for a few days

she is a brilliant sleeper now

Similar-ish sleep situation, I can't/won't leave my baby to cry but unfortunately it means my eldest's bedtime is affected. I put baby to sleep while she reads in bed, then i go and have a cuddle with her, baby's always awake again within half an hour so then I go back in to resettle him. It's honestly a nightmare but also only for a relatively short period of time. Although probably feel like forever for my poor dd who hasn't had a proper bedtime with me for 11 months now. But it's gotten better slowly and will continue to get better as baby gets older, at some point we will all be able to sit and read a story together etc.

Re the 2 year old and her bottle - tbh I'd say don't stress about it, she'll outgrow it at some point and if it helps for now, let it be. It's not a big deal in the big scheme of things.

How can it be? How would anyone know?

it’ll work eventually and definitely won’t do any long term harm, I’m sorry I didn’t do it.
A lot of cuddles and love throughout the day.

Your almost 1 year old baby settles within 10 minutes, that's fine.

My 3rd child had to cry for longer than that often when I was dealing with the others!

My GP recommended the method you are using op.. Ds 10 months had lived in hospital most of his life.. Never slept alone or in the dark. He slept through on the third night with minimal tears..

For the ones who won't sleep train may I warn you of the long term effects to YOU if you remain sleep deprived for long...
Do some research..

If you want reassurance, I did a similar method with my babies, both took 2-3 nights to learn that they weren't going to be going anywhere but their cot (fwiw I never left them to scream or get distressed - I would enter the room, soothe, leave again as quickly as possible) and both are now bright, happy, well adjusted nearly adults (well, one is 23 and the other 16) with a strong empathy for others. No harm done at all.

I'd just go to bed at the same time as the babies and pat them gently

I'd just go to bed at the same time as the babies and pat them gently

“placing him in the cot awake but tired. I stay with him for a couple of minutes then leave. He cries a lot and I check in on him every 3 minutes until his crying becomes intermittent. On the first day this took around 10 minutes. Today it's taken 4 minutes.”

This is cry it out, 100%.

@0alwepg “now I'm stuck with a 2 year old who is addicted to her bottle all day and cannot sleep without it.”

This is pretty normal for a 2 year old, especially one with additional needs. It’s biologically normal for children to breastfeed until they are 4-7 years old, (and the bottle is a breast substitute) it’s also normal to need comfort and support to fall asleep, and to still wake in the night. You say it’s just you and the two children, why don’t you just cosleep with them both? If they are both sleeping in your room you don’t have to leave either child to fall asleep alone.

This sounds like Ferber method, which is often very successful! 4 mins is not a long time to be fair. I think the tricky bit is figuring out if your LO is just "fussy crying", or really truly distressed in some way. Good luck x

Your child is learning to self soothe and sleep unaided which should lead to a more restful and restorative sleep for them (& you). Everyone up half the night isn't good for anyone. I think you have done amazing. It's not easy hearing our little ones cry but 10mins, then 4mins really isn't much at all.

4 minutes? Yes.

Surprised at the replies. Baby is learning mummy is not coming. I couldn't do it, in my personal opinion it's cruel.

cortisol levels will elevate a lot when babies are left to cry so while you might not see any short term damage , the long term effects might be there anyway .
I can emphasise as I have a child with special needs and a baby with a older sen child is hard work but the easiest solution is not always the best .

I think it’s western thing. I’m from Eastern Europe and a lot of mums here do not try ‘cry it out’ method. Actually, it was advertised because mums are forced to go to work so they need to sleep through the night. Even the founder of this method confessed it is cruel.

I sleep trained my no 3.
I was broken from sleep deprivation and was rapidly becoming a wreck.
I had three children aged 3,2 and 1.
First night was awful, she cried a lot
Second night she cried for a total of 20 mins (with me popping in and out)
Third night she slept through and from then on she slept.
Saved my sanity and my ability to parent!

That baby is a well adjusted wonderful adult with two of her own now. She reached break point when her eldest reached 14m and she nearly crashed her car coming home from a night shift (nurse) from exhaustion. I suggested she did controlled crying. She was so worried he'd be traumatised... and then so glad a few night's later when he went to bed ..and slept.
I know I'm old, but to be broken by lack of sleep because a baby hasn't learned that nighttime is sleep time is just ridiculous... are you all traumatising your children if they cry when you are on the loo? No. Parents need sleep and babies are happier when they have learned to sleep at night!