5hr Wait to see a Dr with sick child - how are we at this point

[IAmADancer]

Just that really. Called 111 as my DD is poorly, very high temp, vomiting, lethargic, can’t put chin to her neck as it hurts. Was told she had to attend A&E.

She is currently sat on a plastic chair, looking horrendously pale and feeling so unwell. Seen the nurse and been told it’s a 5 hr wait for a dr.

Why do we accept this as the norm, it’s awful. I feel so frustrated that this is the best we can expect and that a small child who is obviously poorly is left to wait this long

I hope your daughters okay 😔 NHS & A&E is just not the same anymore and I’m not dissing them because my mums a long term NHS worker of over 25 years. Most of the workers are great considering the conditions they work in. X

I think the crux of it and something we can all agree on is that the current system is unsustainable. Something does have to give. In my opinion it is a case of when not if.

It is appalling. Last time I was in A&E with a child we were there waiting for 11 hours overnight before the doctor saw DC, in a situation that was dangerous and potentially life threatening.

When one of my DC was a small baby they had severe bronchiolitis, were struggling to breathe (sucking in chest) and the ambulance for a clear medical emergency and life-threatening situation didn’t show up for an hour and a half. Transferred to hospital and then with oxygen monitor continually going off nurses just ignored it and said they were “too busy” to do anything. I’ve never been so terrified in my life. Eventually when DC was stabilised hours later and given a cot to sleep in I was given nowhere to sleep or even a glass of water, as a breastfeeding mother alone with a very sick child I could not leave unattended. Until DC was discharged the following day I had no food or even water. I was very faint and nearly collapsed on the way home. This was years ago so this unacceptable and negligent level of “care” is not new.

Outpatient/ non-emergency services are no better. It’s all quite disgraceful given how much tax is paid each year for this “service” per my annual tax breakdown. What makes it worse is the attitude problems with the many of the staff where they behave like they’re doing you a favour if they treat you and seem to believe you should be grateful for this sub-standard care that would be considered a scandal in many much poorer, developing countries.

I had to take dd13 to children’s a&e beginning of December, her ankle was swollen and drs were concerned it was broken so sent us there, we only needed an X-ray, we waited 45 minutes to see triage nurse, then 2 hours to see a dr to confirm she needed an X-ray. Left us another 45 minutes whilst she consulted with her boss, whom had walked past us about twenty times not even seeing any patients. Finally sent us for an X-ray and when we came back we had to wait in the main reception and the wait at that point was 5 hours and it was totally rammed. Dd who couldn’t put weight on it properly had to stand for a further 20 minutes for us to find out it was sprained. We’ve been there 3 times previously over the years and been in and out in 1 hr 45 minutes, even when dd broke her foot 9 years ago. It’s probably what time of year it is. I’ve never seen the waiting room that busy before.

It’s completely unacceptable but it’s completely ‘normal’ these days. The NHS is failing.

Hope your little one is OK xx

Exactly this. Even in much poorer European countries this is the case. As a foreign citizen just visiting and not registered with a GP I have been able to see a GP on a Sunday morning within 10 mins at a walk-in centre, sent straight to nearest hospital in nearby larger town, GP personally called ahead and spoke to a consultant in the relevant specialism so they were expecting me when I arrived and knew what the issue was. Immediately transferred to a private room and treated by doctors, not nurses. Tests performed within two hours, treatment provided then discharged later that day, with medical reports to give to my GP in the UK including all test results and treatment etc.

That is the standard of timely, appropriate, respectful and patient-centred care that we should expect and is perfectly achievable in a functional system, at a fraction of the cost that we pay per capita here. The average income tax paid in the UK per person per month is nearly as much as the minimum wage in the country I’m referring to, yet patients are treated with respect and receive appropriate treatment when they need it, as they do across most of Europe.

Yes it is. So maybe stop expecting people to be “so grateful” for it because they don’t have to pay 🙄 when you don’t know their circumstances and what utter hell they have already been through all the while having to pay double to boot.

I hope “something” gives sooner than later and we move to a European style system - where there is some competition which will give a incentive to provide a better service rather just the one sacred cumbersome behemoth about which one can never complain for fear of responses like yours.

Years ago someone said to me "the NHS won't exist in 30 years" and I said "don't be ridiculous, everyone supports the NHS, there'd be riots" and they said "they won't just get rid of it, they'll slowly run it into the ground, and people will start voluntarily using more private services, until it seems like a pay to use service is the only option and people will voluntarily get rid of it". I've always remembered that conversation.

I don't think I have ever said I expect people to be grateful. You said you don't care about the financial situation so I said you probably will when you have to pay. Evidently you don't but plenty of people will struggle if free health care disappears.
My point really is that the NHS is on it's knees and just be aware of what is coming and the costs involved. I have also had to go private in the past so fully aware of the costs of medications, treatments etc.

No, it's not ridiculous. People who can't get insurance will suffer. The wealthy won't. It's definitely a wonderful alternative (!)

It is ridiculous.

France for example manages to have a hybrid system that works and still ensures medical care for those that do not have a lot of money. They still have free care for those that cannot afford it.

So clearly it can be done without poor people suffering and dying.

Once again, people only notice when things go wrong, so good practice is often ignored.

• I can see a GP same day guaranteed. 7 days a week. Last time I went into my walk in GP clinic I was in and out within 15 minutes with my prescription.
• I have never waited more than 4 hours in A&E, and that time it was only because it included imaging and treatment for a broken bone.
• Not all referrals have been super quick, but all have been measured in a few weeks - months, not years.
• when we've needed emergency care it has been prompt and excellent.
• the only 3 times (neither immediately life threatening) we've needed to cause an ambulance is arrived within 30 minutes. 2 of those times taken straight into majors. The third was crap but not everything is perfect (and want my local hospital).

My experiences aren't unique. Most people are seen promptly in A&E, though a significant minority are not. But all we do is hear about the minority, and are therefore convinced it's the universal experience and the NHS is terrible and it's unsustainable.

As someone whose child is likely to continue using the NHS frequently for life, and whose life has been saved by them on several occasions, I am content with our system. It needs investment, but I feel my family is in safe hands.

Yes, dear GOD indeed.

I'm sorry, triage seems to have messed up there. In my country she would have had crp and other infection markers checked at triage so they would have known within 5 minutes that she likely has a serious bacterial infection rather than 'just a virus' which would have increased urgency a lot.

(On the flip side you might have to travel over an hour just to get to the nearest open hospital)

I hope your dd is feeling a bit better this morning.

And people wonder why some people use ChatGPT for medical advice and reassurance nowadays……

Where are you based? NHS services are a complete lottery. These issues are sadly the experience of the majority now.

18months in and zero plan for Social Care, just a consultation.... what have Labour been doing whilst in opposition?

They've money for solar panels and increasing 2 child benefit cap... (thats £20bn)

But cannot pay more for SC... good carers leave the sector every day for better paid jobs elsewhere, meanwhile we pay a fortune to bring in agency staff and overseas carers....

Sort SC and it will free up over 8500 beds...

Well, you’re lucky and naive about what’s going on elsewhere. Your one good experience doesn’t negate the bad experiences of a huge number of other people. It was just on the news this morning that over 100,000 people over the age of 65 were in A&E between 1 and 3 days in the last year, some lying on the floor.

Educate yourself to the bigger picture.

In the UK,southern half. Not going to be more specific than that I'm afraid.

When you look at the percentages, actual raw data rather than just anecdotes, you'll see that these instances are not the norm. They shouldn't happen ever obviously, but they're not most people's experiences. If they were the data would be very different. If you ask people they think the average wait at A& E is 10 hours+. Given that about 75% of cases are met within the 4-Hour target, clearly the average is less than 4 hours. 10% are 10 hours plus.

I'm not naive and I'm not stupid. My experiences are based on four different hospitals, though more at my local hospital. My child that I refer to is under eight different departments across two hospitals, but I'm also referring to treatment of elderly relatives.

I don't need to educate myself. It's easy to think things are unsustainable when you only look at the negatives and not at the positive stories or the data overall.

No you just implied it with your snide remarks.

And again. It is NOT free people pay for it with taxes. There are plenty of systems - some hybrid- that do work where poorer people manage to get care. I have named one. There are others.

Having choice of facilities and bit of healthy competition and knowing people can go elsewhere for care will likely do wonders for lazy staff and bad attitudes.

Four hours! That’s utterly ridiculous. And if you actually look further at the states, 25% of patients had to wait over 12 hours for admission. And those stats don’t take into account those who wait so long they leave before they seen. Animals are treated better.

Having experienced healthcare in many countries, the UK’s health system is not fit for purpose now, and the stats show that. It’s a situation that is only going to get worse.

I worked on the periphery of the NHS for 12 years hearing people’s experiences so I know what I’m talking about (as well as having a few appalling experiences myself). So I don’t really care what the ‘statistics’ or you say. I’ve spoken to thousands of people having very real and horrific experiences. Last time I was in A&E people had been there for over 24 hours and a pregnant lady was sleeping on the floor.

If it wasn’t that bad, it wouldn’t be on the news every other day.

Hope your little one doing better today OP. Fingers crossed x