To wonder how anyone can believe in a religion?

[Staringintothevoid616]

I can understand why some believe in a higher power, in many ways it’s logical and many might just feel there is one, some people might refute that, all fine and dandy.

But what on earth makes people follow a religion? There’s literally hundreds of them over the course of history, even a rudimentary bit of research/critical thinking highlights the fact they can only be man made, the rules designed to fulfil a particular mundane purpose.

What makes people pick one (beyond being born in a certain place to a certain family) over all others and go “ yep this is the one truth, these rules come from a specific god/gods/goddesses, these rules other religions are just made up”.

I mean for many it’s not just a hobby, they’re willing to shape their lives to whatever set of rules they pick, sometimes to kill and be killed. Why??? Even a second of thought must highlight their folly?

it’s not about whether a higher power exists, it’s about why people have to frame that belief on a set of clearly made up rules, which range from the bizarre (don’t eat meat on a Friday) to the downright dangerous )it’s justified to kill anyone who doesn’t believe the same set of made up rules as you do)

AIBU to wonder why people follow religions?

I don't know enough about them to have an opinion. There are some aspects of them that I find attractive, like the Wheel of the Year. I like the division of the year and the acknowledgement of the different energies that those times of year can bring/enhance in us.

I think the story element is very interesting in looking at the way we explore our relativity. Almost every aspect of our understanding of our relationship with the world boils down to stories we tell ourselves. So on an individual basis this works.

If we expand this out to the stories linked to various religion we would have to see this as creating a common understanding of our relationship with the world. I guess this then ties into how does a society exist without a common story, can reality truly exist without a common story?

I have loads of friends who are religious, relatives too, but they know I'm an atheist and we're all cool with each other.

Ok, I wasn’t familiar with this verse off the top of my head so I looked it up,

It says

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

this is apparently part of the Sermon on the Mount and it is Jesus talking.

it seems to me to mean that Jesus has come to fulfill the prophecies of a messiah.

obviously you see a different meaning - could you explain?

1. Community.

1. Most religions offer a reward to believers (eg entry into Heaven) which non-believers are denied. So nothing to lose if you're wrong and everything to gain if you're right.

But the teachings of Christ state that the rules of the Old Testament still apply which might well be off putting to women and gay men.

can reality truly exist without a common story

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

how does a society exist without a common story
It doesn't.

It’s also about control and power.

See the Catholic Church and it’s treatment of unmarried mothers. I was brought up catholic you. And detest organized religion as a consequence

This is most commonly taken to mean that the existing Jewish laws (Jesus came for the Jews not gentiles - that was Paul’s expansion plan) were to still be abided by

It's perfectly logical to want comfort and community.

@Gahr

I can respect that you say you don't know enough about them to have an opinion. However, since that is the case, then I think it would only be only fair for you to exempt Pagan religions from your criticism of other faiths. Because if you don't know much about them, as you say, then you can't really form a negative opinion or judgements about them.

Regarding the afterlife in general, I personally think it's a bit more complex than some people think. Many mediums operate in good faith and believe they are able to communicate with the spirits of deceased individuals, and while some are deluding themselves, I think there are some who have an ability to connect. I also think this is an ability that anyone can develop if they put in the work; it's not some special kind of skill, and mediums (usually) don't claim that it is.

And when it comes to research into psychic abilities and the paranormal, I personally find some of the studies compelling. There is experimental data which suggests the possibility of an afterlife (experiments with mediums.)

There is of course no conclusive proof, but I believe that if one is going by the basis of research alone, a belief in the possibility of an afterlife is reasonable.

Well clearly it can. Because it does

I agree with that.

Jesus (and John the Baptist) didn’t want gentiles (non-jews) in the new form of Judaism that for example Jesus’ Qumran community adhered to; Jesus was focused primarily on the Lost Sheep(le) of Israel whilst also having compassion for non-jews.

It was Paul (who wasn’t even an apostle) that wanted to take Jesus’ teachings and make a new broader inclusive religion from them. Original Christians including the apostles were anti-Rome and followed Jesus’ brother James after the death of Jesus; they despised Paul. Modern Christianity goes against the actual teachings of Jesus in many ways including divorce, wealth accumulation etc.

We know that the name of IS-RA-EL comes from the 3 dieties ISis, Ra and EL. El was the Canaanite creator God that became merged with Yahweh a Canaanite Storm God as the Israelite faith gradually became monetheistic. Before the time of Jesus, the Jewish people had a tendency to fall back on the very popular multiple Canaanite dieties so migration to a singular diety had taken a long time.

I genuinely envy you that, that is an amazing way to look at life. For me, when people are dead they're dead, I don't really miss them or feel much of anything. It'll be me one day and so what? That's partly what I don't like about religion, Christianity especially. It offers a solution to a non problem (death)

But does it still exist if I don’t believe it? What do we mean by stopping believing. To take Steiner’s example of a table, if I stopped believing it was a table and started believing it was a bench and sat on it rather than eating my dinner off it, would it be a table or bench. In fact, would it be anything but a collection of atoms we have assigned a use to.

so if we don’t have a common story we have no society. Therefore, we must conclude multiculturalism cannot exist in a single society?

It's how your brought up ,it's a set of beliefs your whole family believe in ..for some religions you can loose your whole family for going against your religion .
Faced with that ,a lot of people choose to fit in

Very interesting thread. I know of some C of E clergy who also have doubts about organised religion. It's common enough to need a support group.

Really interesting thread 👍

Yes, which still speaks to my earlier point that people who try to make Christianity inclusive to gays and say that women are equal to men are deluding themselves. They are not, and it says so right in the bible. (I don't mean I think they're not, of course!)

This is something I don't understand at all. Are these clergy people who started off believing it and then lost their faith, or did they never really believe? Because I have also heard of this and find it very odd. If you don't really believe, you should really choose alternative employment.

Yes, I too have come across many CofE clergy who have more esoteric ideas than Cranmer would have approved of.

And I genuinely envy you that. Because to me death is the only thing that ruins life. This massive cloud that hangs over us from the day we understand mortality. Like you, I believe that when you're dead you're dead. I don't believe in everlasting life, but I'd love it if I could.

My experience of this is that as you read more and more into Christian theology you develop a more esoteric understanding of it. So it’s a bit like someone with a maths PhD teaching Year 7.

Many members of the 19th century occult society The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn were Anglican clergy for example.

all this stuff about understanding why other people do this that or the other...... I don't understand it

But in a way we do have ever lasting life. Each of us sees and experiences the world in a different way. The world will never exist in the same way before we were born and after we die, we all live in our own universe we have created. That way we exist from the beginning of time to the end of it. We can only hope the lasting effect of the existence of our universe continues to affect every other universe that exists and will exist in a positive way