Does the age of Ozempic and MJ jabs expose what a load of bollocks the ‘Body Positivity’ and ‘Health at any Size’ movements were

[Lardychops]

I was always very clear in my own mind as a very overweight woman, that the body positivity moment was far less about inclusion and moral neutrality around body size (including when seeking healthcare, and waaayy more about trying to persuade/pressurise men into include larger/very fat women in their dating pool. It seemed to wholly focus on fat being seen as sexy (‘real men actually want meat not bones’ etc) and also included a lot of thin-shaming/highly derogatory language about men and women who have/prefer slim or smaller bodies
With the wide availability of Weight loss jabs, however, as far as I can see many of the movement’s most ardent activists and celebrity advocates appear to have done a complete U-turn and are literally unrecognisable as half (or even a third) of the person the used to be!!
From Megan Trainor proving that it wasn’t ‘all about the base’ after all, and to Lizzo who would at one point only hire plus size dancers and backing singers; to the plus size influencers Gabby Lascano and Sophie Goodman who literally built their careers reaching 1000’s of followers, on the ‘big is not only beautiful but BETTER ’ mantra -they are all literally shrinking in plain sight!!

I have lost stacks of weight on WLI’s and am no longer fat. It’s fabulous and a game changer.
I make no bones about the fact that I would crawl through a mile of shit for my weekly dose/pay double for them if I had to. Same for many of my friends. We hated being fat when we were fat and made no secret of it.

I feel that the (now very slim) previous proponents of the body positive /fat is beautiful and healthy (see also: slim, fit attractive men should date us or they are evil shits ) movement are total
hypocrites given the numbers of people that buy their music/watch their films/ consume their content follow them on SM etc etc - many of which can’t access these miracle cures for financial/health reasons etc.
The knots these women tie themselves in trying to justify their weight-loss while not looking like a total twat ( they do - just be honest love ) to satiate their larger bodied fans is utterly galling and I think exposes the whole moment for what it was.

YANBU

I was reading a thread earlier where someone said they expect there'll be far fewer MNetters claiming they look 'ill and gaunt' or 'haggard' at a perfectly healthy BMI.

"I had to choose between arse and face" was always a well worn excuse from people claiming they could lose weight but just 'didn't want to'.

Yes, this is what the poster meant about the 'gaunt and haggard' brigade.

I’m in no such brigade. MT looks absolutely fine… just pointing out her hypocrisy

I think you've misunderstood.

MT looks lovely and the point the poster was making is that most people look much better when they lose weight.

They don't look gaunt and haggard as if often claimed.

As

go on YouTube and TikTok. Type in “fat positivity”.

It’s not uncommon for so called fat activists to ridicule and deride formerly fat people for actually choosing to lose weight. Some of thinking is incredibly warped and dangerous.

I personally think the body positivity movement was one big conspiracy by the FDA to get everyone fat and then advertise fat loss injections to them and make a huge profit!

ODFOD. WLIs do not melt away fat. You have to diet and exercise whilst using them. There is effort involved. You just don’t need to feel hungry all the time any more.

There's more than one way to interpret that line though. I read this as "the skinny bitches who bullied me about the size of my ass", rather than "all skinny women who I'm calling bitches simply because they're skinny and I hate them for it".

Regina George from Mean Girls could be called a "skinny bitch" because - well, she was. Skinny, yes, but ALSO a bitch who specifically bullied others about weight and ostracized them for their eating habits/weight. Cher from Clueless wasn't a skinny bitch. She was skinny, yes, but also NOT a bitch about other people's weight. She generally tried to make other people's lives better, not worse. Big difference.

That said both actresses would be (and Alicia Silverstone was, quite viciously so) considered fat by the heroin chic standards I grew up with. I remember Alicia being ripped to shreds in the media as being too fat to play Batgirl. Utter lunacy.

I don't think anyone was truly convinced by the body positivity movement, especially regarding women's bodies. Judgement, shame and guilt are what we are made to live with on a daily basis from birth.

We all knew that being fat was unhealthy for our organs and uncomfortable to live in, however I think that body shaming is not an effective weight loss tool so it was generally agreed that "mind your own business" was the best way forward.

I would also like to add that slim people are not always healthy. There are plenty of people that survive on high levels of caffeine, sugar and fat with few nutrients but because they are slim they are not judged for it.

Your last paragraph is intriguing to me as I've had similar conversations with my mum and my gran. They will never fully accept their larger bodies but they're happy (if baffled) that I do and am completely uninterested in losing weight or being a certain size. Having watched them diet unsuccessfully my whole life, they can't fathom a life where you just go about your business and have no idea what you weigh or how many calories you've consumed and all the rest of it. For their generation, being thin seems to be the ultimate achievement and I have never understood this.

I don't value thinness at all and I am happiest in my current size 18-20 body. Have been bigger and smaller and this is my natural set point. I have ADHD meds which kill appetite and food noise during the day and I am still happily the size I am because all my other health measures continue to be solidly healthy, the initial loss from starting those meds levelled out quickly, and I have no interest in being thin, it's not my natural shape and I look weird and gaunt when I am the recommended BMI for my height. I also don't care when my weight fluctuates because it's the least interesting thing about me and my life.

The body positivity movement was meant to be about all bodies being worthy of love and acceptance, and about not missing out on experiences and life while waiting to become a smaller size.

I sometimes think I'm the only person in the world who actually likes my body as it is and wouldn't change it even if the WLI were free and had zero side effects.

On the other hand they've been so life-changing for some friends of mine that I can see the other side, but am also saddened to see what feels like the end of a short period of time where people understood that human bodies come in a range of shapes and sizes and are not uniformly slim.

When I was younger, it was generally accepted that the worst thing you could be was fat - nothing tastes as good as skinny feels and all that bollocks. I know people from that time who refused to have photos of important events in their lives because their visible body size was somehow more important than their Masters degree, or their child's naming ceremony.

That we may be entering another phase where thin is the ultimate goal, women are once again expected to shrink themselves to be acceptable and palatable, and slimness is the only thing that matters to many people is depressing beyond belief - humans have so much else going for them.

I can only hope the next generation have a more balanced attitude and more genuine self love, I guess.

I can only hope the next generation are more concerned about the irreparable damage that being happy to be overweight can do.

Especially once they're over 50.

It's all fine being happy until diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure and damaged joints kick in when they're older.

To add, nothing wrong with slimness, but it shouldn't be the sole end goal for everyone any more than fatness should, because humans come in different versions!

A previous poster mentioned body neutrality, but think she's right in that "giving less of a shit about people's appearance" will probably never catch on.

As with any movement there will be the extremes. BP extreme and extreme weightloss - just sides of the same coin. The obsession with weight is so tedious and deeply unhealthy in itself. I'm so over it. I did not enjoy being a teen in the heroin chic era, I don't want it for 13yo DD. I hated my body for years because of it. I wish I'd worn bikinis and embraced the joy of being young. I look back and am so sad for the teen I was - not overweight at all, but full of shame and with a near ED to boot.

Why is it always weight that is in focus - too much, not enough, never ever good enough? Probably because it earns some at the top of the pyramid $$$ to keep women hating themselves and forcing conformity on each other on both sides of the aisle.

Yes, overweight and obese is unhealthy. You know what else is unhealthy? The internet. I've doom-scrolled for about 3hrs while sick in bed. What's that done to my overall health? Nothing good - my cortisol is higher than it should be and I want to stress eat - probably my body gearing up to face down a threat. That's biology for ya.

Staring at a screen all day at work - as unhealthy as sugar, I'd say, but the gods of policing other people's choices when it comes to food / weight won't say boo to the tech overlords, much less the society we've created that is the exact opposite of what our bodies need.

Electric light at night - unhealthy. Late nights, long term sleep deprivation - unhealthy. Sustained moderate to high stress levels - unhealthy. Single family households bearing the weight of everything alone - unhealthy. Poverty - unhealthy. Information overload - unhealthy. Constant stimulation - unhealthy. Why is obesity always framed as society's biggest health issue? To me it's a symptom - a link in a chain, important to address, yes, but not the only thing and certainly not the cause. But tackling the root issues is deemed too hard, and more importantly goes against commercial interests. Much easier to just get people to hate themselves and each other for an easily observable trait, it was ever thus.

My friend has stage 3 bowel cancer that has spread everywhere. She is in the fight of her life. She was fit, healthy, ran marathons etc, but with family history that bit sooner and younger and much more aggressively than expected. She would love to be dealing with just being my slightly overweight self right now. Honest to God, fuck those who say "fat" is the biggest thing we should be focused on. Go hug your kids. Hug your friends. Be present. We get one wild and beautiful life. I'd rather live it present and free, with weight as simply a part of health rather than the be all and end all. It could all be gone tomorrow.

many of the movement’s most ardent activists and celebrity advocates appear to have done a complete U-turn and are literally unrecognisable as half (or even a third) of the person the used to be!!

Like most things in life, it comes down to money. There was money to be made by influencers promoting 'body positivity' - now there's more money to be made by promoting weight loss via WLI.

No one who creates content on social media does it for altruistic reasons. They do it to make money, pure and simple, and they'll turn like weather vanes in whatever direction the money is blowing.

I do think there’s a huge difference between almost treating size 22 plus as something to feel 100% ok about and being accepting that 16 plus is not anything to feel horrendous about or ‘lesser than. ‘ yep it’s not ideal health wise and something many want to work on but as a size 16 myself and 64, certainly don’t think I’m repulsive and yes bothering a bit about yourself helps . I know a fair few size 22 plus’s women who look very well turned out, I’m not sure though if any are 100% happy about their weight regardless of how good they look- when I got to a 20 I got numerous health issues , looked ok- as it was kind of ‘all over’ and I’m young looking anyway -didn’t feel ok

What was the alternative version of the song though? A catchy ditty about hating how her thighs wobble and wishing she had Kare Moss' cheekbones?
She shouldn't have to stay at a heavier weight forever just because she sang about her body in a positive way.

Honestly I've had this argument my entire life - "but your health".

My health metrics are currently excellent, all of them. I'm in peri menopause so accept that may shift a bit over the next decade or so, but given those metrics and that I don't drink or smoke and am active, I still think weight should not be the key thing health is judged on.

And regardless of that, no one should be encouraged to hate their body so much they will miss out on life while trying to change it, in either direction. Life is way too fucking short for that - and we all deserve to enjoy the time we have on the planet no matter our weight or the state of our health.

Agree with everything you said. The body positivity movement now is incredibly toxic.

Most of the “influencers” on social media are utterly vile. The bullying and shaming of slimmer women, and of women in their own community who try to lose weight is horrendous. They’re anything but body positive to anyone who doesn’t look exactly like them.

And the utter hypocrisy each and every time one of them suddenly decides to lose weight, after bullying anyone else who did the same thing, is gobsmacking.

All of this 💙

It's got nothing to do with hate and everything to do with taking responsibility.

And everything to do with people in the UK thinking they can do as they please, and have the NHS 'fix it' at a later date.

Until they can't of course and then they're pretty stunned at the 'unfairness' of it all.

Much like how smokers used to act.

To me it feels like perpetuating diet culture. Body positivity was meant to be about removing shame / disgust from weight.

It now feels like some (not all) people who felt the unfair criticism and shame of being overweight are now perpetuating that for others by losing a lot of weight, becoming a low bmi and posting lots of photos on social media about how great they look.

Not everyone, obviously. Some have genuinely been focused on health outcomes. I have just seen more people posting before and after body size photos that I have people posting before and after blood pressure / blood sugar photos.

Well, people drive in cars and expect healthcare if they crash. They don't get the flu jab every year and expect healthcare for if the flu is worse than they expect. They run and blow their ACL's. They mountainbike, and break bones and backs. They play rugby and expect care for concussions and long term brain damage. An awful lot of people drink and expect care after having too much, or care after a lifetime of moderate drinking. Smokers and now vapers still expect and receive care. Are you suggesting fat people shouldn't? How many of your own choices outside food would you be willing to restrict to qualify for care - sports? Using a car? Your Friday wine? Do we really want a society where you have to meet a virtue test before Drs will treat you? Or where rich people can afford copays so it's the poor that go without?

I'm also curious as to whether you think the govt and corporations who allow so much crap into our food supply to make it as addictive as possible are in any way culpable? The tobacco companies sure were found to be so, and heavily penalized for their role.

They are partly culpable as are tobacco companies.

But we're all responsible for our own bodies and let's remember, we're talking about those who are really happy to be overweight.

If you're happy to be overweight, or you're happy to smoke, you can't blame the companies for your conscious choice.

I spent time in a specialist recovery unit following a relative's injury, at least half in the unit there with severe injuries requiring expensive care were from car accidents. I'm happy to drive, does that mean I shouldn't receive care if something happens?