To think there should be a way of reporting GP surgeries that don’t have online booking available from 8.00-6.30

[BurtsB33]

We were told by Wes Streeting that online booking would negate the morning rush, facilitate being able to get GP appointments and more importantly make booking easier. We were told all GP surgeries would now have this.

In reality like many our GP shuts online booking down early in the day. There is no other way to book. It’s far harder to contact our GP surgeries and to see a GP particularly if you work full time.

So if surgeries aren’t keeping to government promises and declaration of what is/ should be happening surely there should be a quick way of reporting them so the situation can be rectified.

You are not unreasonable to point out that GPs do not work for working people. And seeing as the government also wants people to be fit and healthy and in work, this should be a priority. I just don't know how the government solve this problem.

In my experience the online service doesn't always work. So I'll wait until the afternoon so the urgent cases have been given slots on the day, and know I'll be offered a telephone consultation in about three weeks time. But they cant give a time slot, only that the doctor will call anytime between 8-1 or 1-6 that day. So I mark that time in my work calendar, let people know I might have to drop out of a meeting at short notice to take a call, carry my personal phone around with me into meetings. 6pm will come with no call and I'll think 'ok, I'll ring them back tomorrow'. Get on with early evening tasks with kids come back to my phone to see two missed calls at 6.20 and 6.23 and a message to say I missed my appointment and will need to book another.

I'm not suggesting incompetence or laziness. I am a clinician myself so can well understand the need for triage and urgent appointments as well as shortage of skills. What I don't understand, however, is why the triage is closed for the majority of the day and more importantly why, having been triaged and sent a link to book, I am still not able to see any available appointments.
I can even understand that some poorly designed IT system can't differentiate between urgent appointment slots and non-urgent slots. But then an urgent appointment could be booked by the surgery directly and non-urgent books could be opened for three months in advance. Just an example.
Why have a system where appointment slots are released day by day so no advanced appointments can be made at all? And if I then call the surgery, they book it for me manually... It's either a bizarre and ineffective system or I am missing something.

I agree OP. We can no longer phone the GP. And our online booking services shut after about 10am every day because appointments are full, I needed a hearing test for my son and could only book this in the morning rush.

Oh yes. because Ofsted has been a total success in schools! Ofsted offers no solutions, just criticism, they wouldn't create more appointment slots. It sounds like a Time Traveller may be of more use to create extra time, every surgery would then have a Dr Who on the staff.

For the love of god every suggestion made you’ve bitched about. If you can’t be arsed to follow the existing complaint routes and just want to stamp your feet then fine, but the world doesn’t revolve around you and it is stupid to waste further resources developing a system you think is better when there are already systems in place that are not even difficult to access, just not in your preferred way.

We get it you are very busy and important, but as lods of poster a have explained you are getting angry at the wrong people. You should be angry at the politicians who promised something that was pie in the sky. If you really think you could do a bette job then please lobby and run for office, I look forward to the new system you will build where all of this will be fixed.

Ours is open all day, but triaged. Lots of appointments by phone I think, or bumped to see the nurse practitioner, but it works.

others local to me seem to close their system after a while to catch up with it, then re open, close, re open etc

sounds made to me

its also frustrating they won’t take calls now, so in my 92 year old mothers case my sisters or I have to use the system for her, rather than her just call

The only appointments you can book online at our surgery are for smears.

Everything has to go through an online request system. Can take three weeks for them to get back to you. If you miss their call back twice you have to start again. No possibility of moving surgeries because they are all run by the same company.

I haven't been able to speak, let alone see, an actual GP since 2019, yet when I go for my six monthly blood tests I never see anyone else in the waiting room. Yet they are 'so busy'. And yes, many, many complaints have been made against them but they are still allowed to keep taking over practices.

I think it's Violet Elizabeth Bott

So the number of patients has increased dramatically from 2019??

Yep same here!

Our surgery used to shut access to the online forms down when they were full - you had to access and fill it in at 8am on the dot! Now with the national directive, it’s brilliant, you can fill it in at any time of day and they send you an appointment via email/text. Granted it’s not generally for the same day unless you get in early (or it’s urgent), but I’m happy with the system so far. Sounds like we are lucky!

No PALs is lengthy and sucks up a lot of resources. A quick reporting system to log surgeries that are not providing what the gov site itself says they are would be a far better use of resources.

And at our surgery there is only one system in place and you can’t access it after a short period of time so no there aren’t alternatives. No phone booking, nothing.

For the elderly and vulnerable switching off the booking system not long after opening is particularly poor as it is those with long term illnesses.

What has happened is doctors for years have the view like CrackersMalackers
that patients are just not that ill.

The first appointment you get with a GP is usually a waste of time. They will tell you to go away and monitor your symptoms then make another appointment if things don’t clear themselves up. Regardless of the fact that you have already waited to see if the symptoms clear themselves

Then there is the next appointments where you can only mention one symptom at a time. Despite the fact that a lot of issues are a list of varying symptoms that put together =1 diagnosis .

A lot of time and money and appointments are wasted because a lot of doctors will only test and treat one symptom at a time

What you have now is the build up of these wasted appointments and “money saving” measures” by being slow to get people the right treatment in the first place.

GP’s surgeries have patted themselves on the back for “saving” the NHS money because their surgery has come in under budget but has passed the higher costs of treating someone because their issue has progressed on to the hospitals.

As an example if the GP had listened to all
the symptoms that exh was suffering from at the first appointment it would have meant an immediate referral to a specialist, a short operation and an overnight stay in hospital followed by some chemo etc.

Instead exh went to the GP and probably 50+ wasted appointments later he went into A&E
where he was diagnosed with cancer which had spread.

He then spent months in hospital and had 3 big operations instead of the overnight stay and short operation if the initial GP had listened to him and referred him to a specialist.

The A&E doctor asked exh why he had left it until now to come in. Why hadn’t he seen a doctor earlier.

GPs seem to want to save money so won’t immediately send people for all the tests that could be needed. They won’t listen to the patient. (I actually think they hope a few will die so they don’t have to deal with them)

The problem is like a lot of government policies or departments, there doesn’t seem to be anyone looking at the bigger picture and the overall impact these “money savings”measures have.

Whilst the GPs actions cost the NHS more money than is necessary they also cost other government departments money because instead of being able to return to work in a short period of time and carrying on, people are left having to claim sickness benefit and other benefits because of the effects of being ill for so long.

This! I’d be happy to wait weeks if I could get something booked in. We can’t even book our own appointments. You put down when you want a call if you’re going to get one which they ignore so you have to go through the whole online booking thing again. It’s so so poor. How is it supposed to be better for patients?

This! If there was a logging system it could be used to prevent poor surgeries taking over other surgeries.

In my opinion whilst not perfect the current system is much better. Ours also cuts off early in the day but I can log on first thing complete a form and not have to make 100 calls to get through to a receptionist who tells me all the slots are full and to call back tomorrow. On the days when lm commuting I leave five minutes early, pull over at the appropriate time and complete a form. People are entitled to time off work to go to the doctor so if you need to see a doctor in working hours then take the time off, which employers are refusing workers time off to visit the doctor as this is really shocking and is an employer issue not a GP issue.

Medical appointments aren’t always guaranteed, paid leave isn’t always guaranteed and not everybody has access to their phone during the working day to have on or be in a position to take a call they have no time for. Also people do have working commitments they can’t just ditch for appointments. A good service would enable to patients to make a rough estimate of best time- otherwise why is it built into the software which unfortunately then gets ignored.

Contact the ICB for your area. They will have more information on why certain GP practices are not complying with their contracts at the present time.

Try living in Northern Ireland where this doesn't exist..occasionally some online appointments appear on our practices EMIS page but nothing like the system you describe exists

The complaints procedure doesn't have to involve PAL - PAL is only there if you want help to do so. You first complain to the practice, then up to the chain til the Care Quality Commission.

I've done this before, starting with the practice manager. There is usually a way to make contact or leave feedback on the website.

My GP's practice is also the local place for blood test. I was there was a blood draw recently and lost count of the times I heard the reception say "I can't book an appointment for you, but I can request one...".

The online system where I am at is that you put in a request with the details during the opening hours, they'll called back with either signposting elsewhere or an appointment at one of four practices usually within a day or so, and if you don't like the practice that is currently available, you get put on a waiting list for the site you want. I travel for urgent things, but for routine things I go on the waiting list, knowing I'll get a call where they'll first ask if I can go same day, maybe up to a week which can be a bit awkward with work, but it's better than the morning rush.

You don’t just say as regards overstretched schools that aren’t providing what they should when others do- what do you expect them to do! You expect the education department to be aware of those struggling and support put in place.

No, I don't. I've seen the 'support', it a shoestring and a prayer with the expectation of being all singing and dancing with a smile not only to students and their families, but to trust boards who expect to turn around to their next greatest planning on pinhead. I can't think of a school I've seen that isn't in some way not doing what the DoE lists they should be doing. I don't know what people are expecting when things keep getting added onto them with nothing taken off. I think schools very much benefit from the curriculum and other expectations slimmed down and simplified, alongside the need many have spoken of on bringing back the funding more TAs and support staff.

I'm not sure how we manage that with the NHS, I don't have the experience to even guess - I mean, I can see in other countries more put on preventative medicine with a lot of personal responsibility to manage that, but I really cannot see from where we are now how we'd get there.

I think it might be worth pointing out to people that there is a reason why they might find differential levels of service between different practices, and that is often enough…money!
It is worth having a small understanding of the ways in which general practice is funded, which is based on a payment per person per year. That person can come never, or every day the practice is open and the same funds will be received. Alongside this there is a system called QOF, the quality and outcomes framework. This means the practice gets money for seeing patients for their long term health conditions, getting their blood pressure well controlled etc. Therefore if you run a practice in a deprived area, where people attend frequently as they are in poor health, but don’t come along to all their annual health checks, it is much harder to keep the practice in the black. Hence you may find that they have less money to recruit and retain staff, and access will be worse.

The obligation is to offer online consultation for non urgent matters not booking.

Yes - the numbers wanting an appointment increases year on year and year on year the GP’s do more appointments

Whenever a new housing development is built with hundreds of houses, there aren’t new GP surgeries so these patients are squeezed into existing surgeries

Not everyone can afford to lose a whole days pay for an appointment once a month