15 year old DS has two modes: obnoxious or defensive

[Spiritedlight]

DS has always been wilful, opinionated, strong minded - I don't mind it. It's who he is and that's it. There have been clashes - he doesn't like to be told ANYTHING - and I can be a hot head. But we are also close.

But the past 6 months, we have really struggled with him. He's become so...obnoxious. And when he's not acting like he knows everything (when he knows nothing), he's defensive. If he does badly in a test (because he didn't revise), he'll say immediately, well look at how well I've done in others. This is just a lapse. But there are many lapses...because he doesn't want to learn from his mistakes.

It makes having any sort of conversation impossible - about anything. He just thinks he either knows it, or we can't help him/teach him anything, takes it as criticism, or fires back insults and criticism to us.

It's exhausting and pretty depressing - even when I try and take the softly soflty approach.

Is it an age and stage? Is he insecure hence the above? I guess I'm trying to figure it out to strengthen the connection, but maybe I'm overthinking it. His sister was nothing like this.

I would say it is an age and a stage! I used to just back off or say we agree to disagree. It is infuriating though. Ds25 who apparently knew everything and we were clueless in his teenage years now regularly phones for advice on house buying, diy etc as suddenly it would seem we do actually know stuff!! Play the long game as it will pass.

Following as mine is similar. I have twins, so I know it’s not all 15 yo boys!

I’m at the end of my tether with everything I say being met with grunts at best, or outright hostility.

Age and stage. 14-17 is often the worst age.

Greater independence (getting a part-time job is good) will help I found, he'll suddenly realise that the world isn't just going to bend to his will.

I think it’s mostly an age and stage thing but not all boys go through it.

DS1 was a delight-still is to be fair.
DS2 has been more challenging but he has not long turned 16 and he (fingers crossed) seems to be maturing a little. He’s started asking for help with things and has stopped rolling his eyes so much. It gets better.

Ok, thanks. That's helpful. It's so hard not to react - I don't always manage it. Even my very easy going DH, who DS adores, thinks he's a dick at the moment.

I have one too!!!

We have sat him down and told him how obnoxious he is. We have also told him he can be upset about stuff without being a total arse.
he does her better but does need reminding often?

It is actually a good skill to be able to advocate and stand up for yourself sometimes rather than allowing yourself to be a punching bag.

I appreciate it may not always be ideal, but it sounds like he is growing into a confident and assured young man, which is great.

I agree. I think these qualities, as long as he's respectful and kind to others, will help him as an adult. But they are incredibly hard to parent.

We tell him fairly often that the way he's talking is inappropriate, or isn't listening to anything we say, but he has an answer for everything. Very very very quick to point out our failings in response.

Maybe it's our fault. Maybe he feels too criticised. I don't know. We're a loving family but he's needed a lot of boundaries. He thought he was 21 from the age of 7. Can't understand why he can't have total independence etc

At his age/stage he is like a shaken snowglobe.
In time it'll all settle down and that's when his true character and personality will start to emerge.

Is there a way you could discuss with him ways to reduce these boundaries and give him more independence in a way that is mutually agreeable?

Ime 15 is an age where teens (especially boys) need to be starting to become more independent. I especially think arbitrary rules can be an issue at this stage.

He has a LOT of independence. We are pretty good at meeting him on stuff.

The point is: no boundary will ever suit him unless it's totally unrealistic and not in line with his age.

Three Four????!!!

Sorry - I couldn’t resist saying this because someone said EXACTLY this to me at a street party for Charles and Di’s wedding.

I’m absolutely NOT showing my age or social class

I don’t mean to derail the thread

Both mine went through a period like this.

not all teens do but a lot of them do.

i stopped discussing stuff with them to be honest. It was a waste of breath. They knew everything.

i just let them get on with it. They generally learned from experience (although it usually took three or four repeats).

obviously house rules still held I just didn’t discuss and it was straight to consequences.

I think this is probably the best approach, to be honest. Less is more.

I had to pretty much grey rock my DS1 at that age for about a year. He was beyond horrible ( I have four children and the rest were ok, it was just him)
Rude, obnoxious, explosive with a foul temper and did some really really stupid stuff. Stole from us, you name it he did it.

He grew out of it :) Around 17 we started seeing glimpses of the nice kid we had pre puberty and by 18 he was a lot better, and by 20 very aplogetic for the arse he'd been.

We had to treat him like a stranger...polite to him, pleasant when he was, and ignored the rest except a few hard boundaries (which he still ignored when he could)

Hang in there!

Thank you! That's so comforting. And now he's a lovely young man?

Yes, he's lovely. Caring, hard working and just a good all rounder :)

I just wanted to add, as I witnessed it, and was also thinking about it - but I also think he's a bit like this with friends too. Opinionated. Really contrary. I'm wondering whether it's going to distance him from friends.

Should I step back and just let it unfold? Let him play it out his way? Learn from his mistakes etc

As long as his opinions are not hurtful to others, then yes, let him get on with it. As time goes on, he’ll work out why his friends are distancing themselves and he’ll correct it.

It sounds to me as if you nag him and tell him off too much, and he's just standing up for himself. My parents were like that and while I didn't rebel at the time, I went NC with them for three years in my twenties. You need to tread carefully. When you say he 'points out your faults' do you ever listen, or just expect him to shut up because he's the kid.

@Spiritedlight I recognise this from DN. Thought he knew everything and other family members thought it didn’t matter. Turned out it did. Messed up A levels (taken over 3 years), only interested in gaming and a PITA. All “friends” are on line and he’s a total mummy’s boy. He was a nuisance at school (got exclusions) due to being the know all class clown, and decent dc didn’t want to know him. Hardly a surprise but they don’t learn, sadly!

Agreed. I’ve got DSs 25 & 17. DS1 is long past this stage; DS2 is still there, although neither were/are as bad as yours sounds!

What you will need to be prepared to do is let him fail at something. Let someone else (GCSE examiners) teach him a lesson. He isn’t going to have a sudden conversion to your way of thinking.

I think we’re getting more of this kind of behaviour now because most parents pay at a lot of attention to their DCs’ education. In my day our parents more or less let us get on with it.

What a negative assumption. He gets a lot of agency and we are constantly reflecting with him on what we get wrong. And we repair.

Well, I'm only going by what you said!