DP accusing BIL of racism

[Eastie77Returns]

DP is white (I am not) and from south of Europe. His sister is married to a man from their home country. DP and his brothers have never taken to this man. It’s all a bit complicated but he is from a very wealthy family, DP’a family is working class and very left-wing (FIL was a Communist mayor of a town) and DP has had many heated arguments with his BIL over various political issues etc and just seems to resent him. I have always found him perfectly pleasant.

Anyway. Just before Xmas we went to visit DP’s family with our two DC. BIL and SIL were there with their 2 year old DD. At various points in the evening BIL was taking pictures of all the cousins (our DC and those of DP’s siblings). He subsequently posted a picture on Insta with the caption “Alice” and her cousins” which had his DD and all of DP’s siblings kids but not ours. I had no idea about any of this until I heard DP shouting on the phone one evening and was able to understand the word “racist” (he was talking in his mother tongue) and other bits. Turns out he was talking to his DSis and accusing her DH of racism. She called me in tears saying her DH didn’t mean to exclude them and if we check the account there are pictures of them elsewhere. The drama rolled on as BIL apparently removed the offending picture and replaced it with another one of their DD with all the cousins this time including our DC (I’m not on Insta and saw none of this). DP told BIL to take the picture down, it’s too little too late. DP’s brothers joined in and also denounced him as a racist. Anyway, my AIBU is DP wants to cancel a planned trip to his home country during half-term where we due to stay with SIL & BIL. Our DD will be distraught as she absolutely loves visiting them. She plans to take DP’s language for GCSE and is desperate to spend as much time as possible in his home country. My gut feeling is BIL is not racist, I have genuinely never seen him be anything but kind and attentive to our DC and he has known them since they were babies (now 10 & 12). The picture issue is a puzzle though since he obviously had a picture with all the cousins that he could have posted to begin with.

AIBU to say we should still go? There is now so much ill feeling between DP and his sister but she has categorically told me she wants us to come. I do not feel comfortable visiting without him.

@OneShoeShort yes I understand your point about "mental exceptions" as well.

@Eastie77Returns I would be wanting your DP to explain what other comments have been made, yes.

How does he want to move forward now?

It sounds like your DP is just looking for an excuse to have a go at his BIL, the photo thing is a bit ridiculous 🙄 unfortunately, I think your trip will likely have to be cancelled, it would be too awkward to go and stay with them while this is unresolved and it doesn't sound like your DP is willing to try and find a resolution, even though BIL has done his best to.

Go on holiday to your in laws home country but stay in a hotel or b&b to give everyone some space. Keep contact with your bil to a minimum but do get the cousin's to hang out together. You might enjoy the trip better if you're not in each other's pockets.

it would be a shame to cancel a trip that their DD and the op is looking forward to as a result of her dp being a bully. That doesn’t seem very fair on the op or dd.

what do you mean when you say you wouldn’t be comfortable to go without him?

I note you haven’t responded to posters insulting your dp (mine included) , but you haven’t engaged in either direction. Is that because you agree, but can’t separate for whatever your own reasons are? And is that why it would be uncomfortable? - because you don’t want to raise it with him that you think he’s a twat. (Projection obvo but based on the very many - almost all - the woman I know who are currently still married and pretending to like their husbands, who they can’t stand, but all have very valid reasons, all completely selfless, for staying).

It would be a really bad idea for you to go without your DP @Eastie77Returns . Book a holiday elsewhere and give this mess time to sort itself out.

OP, do you speak the local language? I ask because it doesn’t seem like you do (based on you saying you could kind of make up what your husband was pestering about).

if both your husband and all his siblings minus his sister think your BIL is problematic and racist, it’s very likely he is.

Whether it means you would be able to tell, is completely different as some are racist but socially aware (wouldn’t say a racist thing in front of you), some are « harmless » (definitely racist and wouldn’t necessarily stop themselves from making offensive jokes but wouldn’t physically harm anyone or wish harm upon them) and others are the more horrible kind. Context and being able to understand the language plays a big part in being able to recognize type 1 and 2.

I am half black as are my siblings. My mother is white and I grew up with the white side of my family. They are all as lovely as they are racist (minus my mom). They even vote the extremist party, they love us but they say 100 offensive thing a minute. If you do not speak our language then you can’t know and if I was to introduce you to my family you would think they are lovely and hospitable (because they are), if you were able to listen to them you would think they are incredibly offensive and definitely racist (though the « harmless » kind, as in they won’t ever beat up a black person but will feed you 100 stereotype about them). My siblings are no contact with the family as a result of growing up in an environment where racism was normalized and where we were seen as « weak » for not taking it on the shin.

So, if someone tells me their parents/family/BIL/SIL/MIL/FIL is racist I believe them. Because most people wouldn’t say something racist in front of me, most people also live in complex realities where they can set you apart from the others they judge if they like you.

It could be a case of jealousy from your DH and his siblings but if your BIL was already in the front page of local news for abusing migrants it’s very unlikely there isn’t some truth to it.

I mean it would be awkward/uncomfortable for me to stay with DSIL and BIL without DP since they are his family, not mine.

Sorry, wasn’t aware I wasn’t responding to posters insulting DP. Your message read ‘Your DP is vile’ so not sure what to say to that..? I don’t think he is vile but I’ve explained in various posts why I’ve taken issue with his behaviour so wouldn’t say I ‘haven’t engaged in either direction’

@Linning It’s my personal experience that racists generally reveal their true colours one way or another. You say I’d never be able to tell that your white family members are racist because they are hospitable etc. Given my lived experiences, I would. I’ve been around many white individuals with black family members, even half-black DC, who hold racist views. I’ve met and worked with charming, friendly white people and have been able to pick up on their racism. It’s a ‘skill’ that comes with experience - the ability to pick up on subtle and non subtle signs.

I am bi-lingual French/English and understand DP’s mother tongue to some extent (a Latin language) but he often slips into a mix of dialect and the official country language when speaking with family so I don’t always fully understand. I find it easier to understand BIL when he speaks, he is from a different region and only speaks the official language. I’ve yet to hear a racist comment. But I fully agree that I might not truly see BIL for who he is and DP knows things that I don’t. But he cannot give me any concrete examples of BIL’s racism apart from this photo issue…

BIL was not connected to the migrant employees. It was his father’s business that was exposed in the paper. I asked DP to explain the offensive comment BIL made about the migrants. He rolled his eyes and instead talked about the fact it was disgraceful the father was so exploitative.

Do you think you can convince your DP to bury the hatchet and calm the situation down?

If not, I can't see how you can go and stay with his DSis, although you could travel and stay elsewhere I guess. If I was your DP, I would see staying with his DSis as a form of betrayal, even though I might be completely in the wrong.

Also, what if the DSis and/or DBil spend your whole trip moaning about the fact they've lost contact with all the brothers and trying to make you into some sort of liaison to sort out the issue with everyone? Doesn't sound much fun to me, but I have seen people take on that role in families (in fact DH did this with his family for years)- not a role I'd want though.

Beyond petty and screams jealously

Your ‘d’p simply dislikes BIL.
There doesn’t appear to be any evidence that BIL is racist and you yourself said that you are able to pick up on even the most subtle racism and that BIL does not exhibit these signs .Therefore based on this it just seems as though your dp is looking for reasons to discredit BIL. I don’t believe that he truly thinks that BIL is racist .
Your ‘d’p is consumed by jealousy . Jealousy is a horrible spirit because it can turn even the ‘ nicest’ individual into a horrible person

You seem quite determined to take this guys side over your husbands but……You don’t really know him, or speak the language, or know how he treated those migrants yet you seem determined to believe him over your husband and his brothers.
So go ahead I guess? I hope you are right.

This is where the whole woke thing can do so much more harm than good. It sounds like your partner was either looking for something to get at him and thought this instance to accuse him of racism was what would hurt most.

Or he is much too emotionally involved in wanting to promote anti racism that he sees it everywhere even when it isn't.

The most likely scenario in this instance is that he looked at all the pictures and posted the one where HIS kid looked their best, as we/parents usually do and their best picture happened to be one without your kids in it.

What a complete over reaction on your partners' part that has now probably left a lot of very bad feelings. It's quite horrible to be accused of being racist when you are not. What a stupid thing to have done, and now instead of making it up for the sake of his kids primarily, he is making himself even more of a fool and punishing everyone!

He didn’t have any dealings with the migrants. They worked for his dad’s business. BIL & SIL live in a different part of the country and BIL doesn’t work for his dad. I have no idea what his feelings are towards migrants. I’m not taking his side. I’m asking DP to tell me why he is racist and obviously, if DP told me, I wouldn’t allow our DC to visit their aunt and uncle.

It sounds like your DP is just jealous of his BIL and find an excuse so that he can dislike him.

He probably picked the picture where his DD looked cutest/prettiest/happiest compared to the other pictures. Doubt it had anything to do with your DCs.

I think your DP wants an excuse to validate his dislike of this rich man

Well, he would be pleasant would he not living off someone else. They always are. In fact, they usually go out of their way to be extremely nice to all nationalities. Why are you defending him and not your husband.

Who is living off someone else? Completely confused.

@Eastie77Returns I think some posters are here have immediately taken against your brother-in-law because he's got money.

I thought you were saying he was a successful businessman in his own right? And that it is his father who treated immigrant workers in a questionable way. Is that correct?

Yes it’s his father who runs a questionable business and employed migrants. BIL trained in a profession and has never worked for his father.

Well an interesting update is I’ve just discovered DP has won thousands of euros over the last year playing online poker online with brother. This is something he has never told me about and I found out by chance. I wouldn’t mind but he’s raised all these objections to BIL’s family immoral hoarding of money but has had no compunction about hiding all his winnings from me!

I think your DP has a very nasty case of class hatred/envy. Sometimes people think class hatred can only work from the top down, but that is absolutely not the case.

And there are a lot of people who conflate class issues with race issues. The migrant worker thing is a good example, usually the issues affecting migrant workers are class based, but if they happen to be a minority race people just call it racism. (Which could also be a factor but it is not the same thing.)

Part of it is that if you call people a racist it is a more effective way to get people to hate them than if you accuse them of classism. (Though that seems to be on your Dps side, rather than your BIl, but no doubt your Dp is projecting.)

Your DP hates your BIL because he assumes your BIL must be a bad person due to his economic and social class. While his own behaviour is fine, including living off gambling which has to be one of the most basic types of exploitation of money out there - because he himself is the "good" class.

I'd go on your own with your Dd, it might be a bit awkward, but she should go if she wants to. Or, depending on her age and such maybe she could go alone.

Why is your DP calling a racist for not posting a photo of your Children? I don't quite understand.