To think friends should not let their child win all the time

[Hey12345]

We spend weekend evenings often with a couple who we have been friends with for years. We have a son who is 7 and they have one who is 6. Their son likes to play car racing games on xbox and sometimes wants us or our son to play along against him. It he is losing the game, or not in first place, half way he will stop and restart the game, this happens until we lose interest in playing and will make an excuse and let him play the game on his own.

But also, when we play board games, simple board games that doesn’t require any strategy or anything, he always asks his parents if he won and his mum always says yes. Which I suppose is fine if it’s one of them who won and can give him the win, but sometimes it’s our son who wins so I think it’s unfair to do so then. Sometimes we (adults) will play a kareoke game competing against each other, and usually our sons just play their own games, but recently their son has been sitting watching us play, occasionally singing a few random words and at the end when the scores come up he will ask if he won, and his Mum will say yes! Again, I do disagree with is, especially if it wasn’t his Mum who won because surely he needs to learn that you need to at least participate in the game to win?!

I understand you need to let children win to boost their confidence, I’ve been through it myself with DS, however I do this by discreetly letting them win a few games by not playing as well as I would normally (board games / mario kart etc.). And I remember DS being such a sore loser at I around 4 years old, so we tried to encourage positive losing, as in us losing and saying “oh well that’s fine, lets play again, I still had fun….” Etc. because obviously you worry about them losing in school and then kicking up a fuss.

aibu to find this annoying? It’s making me to not want to spend time together if it involves children and games!

They are not doing the child any favours at all.

Growing up I had a primary school friend who had parents that engineered she win every unwrapping of the pass the parcel at her birthday parties amongst other things like you describe. She had zero friends by secondary school. It didn’t really set her up for real life imo.

I would find this irritating too.

I think part of playing games as a child is to learn to lose gracefully. When you get better at it and actually win it then means something too. If a youngster loses all the time however, I think we all fake it sometimes so they aren't crushed and lose interest but not so often that a megalomaniac is created.

100%.

It just shows when he isn’t first place and restarts the game. Recently I’ve also noticed when he has been playing alone and loses he gets a little angry and kind of hits his controller against the table, not with a lot of force, but you can tell he’s annoyed. I think that’s when he started to hang around with us adults then and thinks he’s winning singing games he isn’t even singing along to!

I was a little worried that maybe my DS was just younger learning to lose. But I don’t think I ever said he won something, when he clearly didn’t. And at the age of 6 going 7, I personally think he should definitely understand that he will definitely lose at some point. My DS is not the fastest runner bless, and sometimes last on sports day, but he’s never been negative about it and still keeps trying every race.

My childminder was like this with her son. I turned up early once and they were playing a game with DD. The mum clearly did something with the cards to let her DS win. They were then both very smug about it.
DD said he was furious whenever she beat him at something. He would also have tantrums at peoples birthday parties as everything wasn’t designed for his interests.
Luckily DD only went to her for a year when she was older and could see what was happening.

I did asked DH if I should try and have a lighthearted heart to heart about it because obviously it’s not benefitting her son, and I have personal experience of a child who didn’t like to lose (although luckily at a young age before school etc.), but DH thinks it’s a bad idea and that our friend would not take it well. For me it just makes me not want to spend time with them, especially (unfortunately) with their son, which is a shame, but I also have a younger DD who is only 3 so obviously don’t want her learning any bad examples from spending time with them, but I suppose being the youngest she’s already learned how to lose from having an older brother!

What would happen if when he asked if he won, you said not this time, yourDSname won ?

Very silly of them! Navigating tantrums over losing is just part of parenting. We all have to do it. It’s fine to let them win sometimes to stop them being totally discourage, but losing is part of taking part in games and a skill he will have to learn sooner or later. Much easier to learn it as a child when tantrums are just childhood ones.

The devil in me would find it very hard not to say something though. Like when he asks ‘Did I win?’

‘Not this time, I did! Good job though!’

It's a balance, isn't it? I have the opposite experience with a family member who genuinely does not really grasp this one, and I find it irritating. I also think it takes quite a lot of skill sometimes to let a child win (eg., if you're playing chess or something tactical).

But losing gracefully is so important!

I think if you have two children playing together, it's really important not to intervene too much. Obviously with a large age disparity like, say, 12 and 7 you might, but these two children are virtually the same age.

I would definitely be intervening when your DS has won. Otherwise, you're teaching him that he's not very important compared to your relationship with these friends, and that's a bit crap.

I also think there is a big difference between deliberately making a poor move or not moving your counter enough etc to let your child win when they are young and need encouraged but telling him that he won when he didn't is really odd. Can he not tell from the rules of the game if he won so being first to the end or having the highest score. You also need to consider how it makes your DS feel - does he realise that actually he has won?

This really won't help him in the long run.

Also, by 6, I'm surprised he has so little understanding of how the games work that he thinks he's won when he hasn't?

My nephew was like this. Every time he played a game his parents let him win or pretended it was a tie, so that he never lost. He started crying at a school event when he didn't win a prize and his schoolmates made fun of him. He was 10 so you can imagine.
Your friends are not doing their son any favours.

In the racing game scenario, if he restarts the game I’d be tempted to give him one chance and then move away from playing.

So if he restarts the game part-way through I’d say something like “Bob, when you restart the game it’s not fair on other players who might be winning at that point. If you do it again we’ll have to stop playing”.

If it happens again move away and do something different.

It helps your DS to see that he doesn’t have to put up with the situation and hopefully helps Bob to realise that there are consequences to playing that way.

If his parents always do this, though, he won't understand.

Again, I am coming at it from the opposite perspective, but my family member who doesn't understand the idea of making any concessions to let a child win, also wouldn't understand this. He used to talk about DD 'cheating' when it was quite obvious she simply hadn't understood the rules of the game (eg., which pieces in chess can jump, or which pieces can move backwards).

I noticed that it really confused DD, to the point where I had to work quite hard to teach her the actual rules, because an adult saying something with certainty is very powerful to a child.

If this child's parents constantly tell him he has won, it's not surprising 1) that he believes it and 2) that he's constantly asking whether or not he's won - he must be totally confused about the way 'winning' is judged, because it won't be at all clear to him what you have to do to win.

Stupid thing to do to a child.

Sorry, I'm double-posting and maybe rambling ... but playing games is such a huge psychological education for children; it's really important.

Children are testing out 'ooh, there is a rule here, which may be arbitrary: how does that work? What are the limits? What is allowed and what can be changed?' A child who gets upset about not winning, or who cheats/wants to restart the game isn't just being 'naughty' or a 'sore loser,' they're trying to understand how it all works. If we get angry with them, or if we just give up and tell the child they won, that doesn't help.

They're also working out how to approach those rules and how people approach those rules: does everyone have the same strategy? How much of it is about luck? How much is about skill?

It's really interesting when children start to play with children from other families, and they suddenly discover that some of what they thought was fixed, isn't. Some people have different rules. Is that ok? Are they being fair? Some people respond differently to the rules. What do we do about that?

This child is missing out of all of that because his parents don't want to bother.

That’s a really interesting post @SarahAndQuack

I think one of the biggest arguments DC had with a group of friends came about playing Uno aged 14 when it became clear that they all had slightly different ‘family rules’.

I agree with all of the above,I actually made this mistake with my youngest who is now 9. I personally am not competitive so it never really bothered me - if I win,it's a nice suprise.If I lose,I couldn't give a toss. So I always played it down,and we all got into a habit of letting 'the baby win'.

Big mistake - it actually spread over into school, where his frustration tolerance was crap. He couldn't handle not being great at everything immediately and would get super upset and stressed if he got something wrong or found it difficult.

I'm convinced this is my fault,and am still actively trying to correct it 2 years on. Was very slow going, but we've made progress!

I would actually just go along and tell the truth about who wins, and explain the game a bit too.

If the parents get pissy, that's on them.

My DS had a friend who I think must have been parented like this because he could not handle losing at ALL. Unfortunately he and my DS have now fallen out for good because my DS got so fed up of the tantrums at school etc, this child was also constantly trying to change the rules mid-game to engineer a win for himself. I would try and have a gentle word - maybe start by correcting if the mum says he won in your presence when he didn’t!

If they want to do this with their child, let them. They have their reasons for doing it, it’s none of your business.

If your child is bothered by it, your choice is to either teach them how to deal with it, or choose not to have him play games with this child.

If you, as adults, are so butt-hurt that a 6 year old is given a win over you, that’s something you need to deal with in your own mind. You might want to ask yourself why you need to be seen to win a silly game, played for fun with friends.

If you are curious about their thought process and parenting methods then by all means ask them about it. If you want to tell them they are wrong for how they are choosing to raise their child, then you might as well just save yourself the bother and end the friendship now.

I have a different experience. We didn’t let my daughter win. We played games fairly, adjusting for her age, if she won then fine, if she didn’t then fine, it was all just a game.

She is now pretty competitive, hates to lose (but does so with dignity). She puts a lot of pressure on herself to be the best in everything, is reluctant to try something if she thinks she won’t be good at it. I guess that’s because the element of game playing is such a tiny part of how we raise our children, it’s highly unlikely that how we dealt with that specific issue is what has shaped her as a teenager.

If you win just say loudly, 'I won' with a laugh, before his mum can say anything, and the same if your DS wins, 'well done Johnny you won this time'. If he stops playing halfway, just say, 'oh dear you were losing what a shame'. If his parents complain just say, 'we can't help winning sometimes'.

Is it because their son is the youngest they want him to win?

Did you actually read the op? The other mum is doing her child no favours.
Just wait until he loses in school and kicks off. That won't be fun for anyone especially the child.