To consider retraining as a solicitor with young children?

[Retrainingideas]

Currently have 2 DC under 5. I’m a SAHM for now, but would like to go back to work once the children are a little older.

However, due to DH’s job, chances are that I’m always going to need to be fairly flexible in terms of WFH/school drop offs and pick ups etc. I wouldn’t want to be reliant on formal childcare and don’t have much help in terms of family locally.

I like the idea of family law (sorting out divorces etc) and also employment law. Are these particularly competitive areas? Likely to be fairly flexible/inflexible?

Are law firms open to taking on those only starting their careers mid 30s?

i’d be looking to work out of London, so not at any big city firms.

I’d also ideally be earning £50k+ and not working 5 days per week. Is this possible in this career? If not, any other areas of law I could look at that would be more flexible?

You might take a browse through the Mature Study and Retraining board to see how other people have fared in similar circumstances:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mature_students

I had similar thoughts when I had two little ones. I went back to my former profession in the end as it was the path of least resistance. When I looked at what the salary was and what the law firms were looking for, and how competitive it was (and the criteria), and looked into the work culture (especially hours in early career), I decided it would require too much of me for too little reward. I’ve already paid my dues in my current career, I don’t want to go back to working around the clock to get a foot in the door that might slam shut anyway. The thought exercise did remind me that I have something to offer to the workplace, though. YMMV. What was your previous role/career/earning potential like?

I presume you don’t have a law degree? Do you have a degree in any subject?

Why don’t you want to rely on formal childcare? Is there a reason eg SEN

I have a politics degree.

Just through choice. I want to be at home for the DC after they get home from school even if it means logging on in the evenings.

The work culture in law is absolutely horrible and not family friendly. Also, I'd think very carefully before moving into law, as its one of the fields said to be most at risk of being essentially replaced by AI.

That said if you're set on it, look into cilex, you can study in your own time and remotely if you wish.

It's quite inflexible in these areas as a general rule (you're dealing with the most important moments in your clients' lives so they're not going to be delighted if you can't take their calls because you're doing pickup and some other solicitors are needlessly aggressive about time limits). Also you need to bring in fee income so in many places it's a sales job more than a technical one.

Obviously some people find really balanced arrangements but you usually have to slog through a few years to get there.

Thanks for sharing. My previous role was in marketing. I don’t really want to go back to my previous career - it’ll have changed a lot by the time I’m ready to go back and I’d be going back at a fairly junior level. I’m just not very interested in it any more.

Thank you. Do you know what the more flexible areas of law are?

Have a look at this: https://www.law.ac.uk/employability/legal-practice-areas/family-law/

It's not easy to start practicing law and as others have said it's not flexible or going to get you a high salary quickly.

@MsOtisReflects suggestion is good or have a look on work board for ideas.

Have you research how long this would take?

Yes

Ok, so this will mean at least two years of studying - if you do it full time. Part time will take longer.

You’ll need to complete the PGDL (Post Graduate Diploma in Law), followed by the two Solicitor Qualifying Examinations (SQE), which have replaced the Legal Practice Course. Note - these are not cheap qualifications. The SQE also has a very low pass rate - around 40% - and unfortunately the data shows that the older you are, the less likely you are to pass.

Once these are done, you will need to complete a two year training contract with a law firm before officially qualifying as a solicitor. To be aware, training contracts are extremely competitive to obtain.

During the training contract, you would be earning around £28-30k. A £50k salary would only be a possibility upon qualification - and outside of London, it’s very unlikely you could earn £50k without working full time for at least several years.

An alternative route could be beginning a part-time PGDL course as soon as possible - you’ve missed January but some providers have April start dates. That will take about 2 years, and you could then look to work as a paralegal at a family law firm, in the hope that they agree to sponsor you through the SQE and offer you a training contract. However, even these paralegal roles are extremely competitive, there’s no guarantee you’ll get a training contract out of it, and they’re extremely low-paid (little more than minimum wage).

These days there really aren’t any fields of law that aren’t massively competitive. Studying law isn’t capped, unlike medicine or dentistry, so there is a massive over supply of people with law degrees, and also of solicitors.

The academic bits I’m completely fine with. Happy for it to take a few years and I’m confident in my academic ability. It’s the training contract bit that concerns me. Is being older a benefit (do firms appreciate the life experience, dedication etc of older/career changer candidates) or would they rather have 22 year olds, fresh out of uni that can work every hour under the sun?
Is it possible to do a training contract fairly flexibly? Or would it be expected that you do 8-6, Monday - Friday?

Thanks for your advice too.

On top of all that - you do understand you would be going in at the junior level? So you’d potentially have people ten years younger than you sending you to the 21st century equivalent of the photocopier.

And the time sheets! (I spent about 18 months as a paralegal in the City after my Law degree. Took one look at time sheets and knew it wasn’t for me. Went into the other branch of the legal profession.) The thing is, solicitors’ firms are hungry beasts and everything you’ve said about flexibility and not having to work five day weeks … It’s totally inimical to the work culture you’d find yourself in. I’m sure more senior solicitors can attain the sort of lifestyle you envisage - but your children might be teens before you get there.

Are all areas like this though? For example, surely firms/solicitors that work in property sales, in small towns, don’t have this kind of culture?

The lawyers I know have struggled to negotiate part time work, and they were looking to go part time when already quite established in their careers. I think it would be very difficult to just be starting out but still have the flexibility for school pick up/drop off every day.

Have you considered the civil service? Or PA/administrator roles? This wouldn’t necessarily fit the bill right away but you wouldn’t have to get additional qualifications and could work your way up.

There are not many jobs out there allowing wfh school hours only, paying £50k+. I suspect the people who have those arrangements are probably experienced and have proven their worth to their organisation to be able to negotiate this.

My field isn’t amenable to WFH so I work part time (and use childcare) - it means I’m still around to do a couple of days’ school runs and hobbies, and we have less days to cover during the school holidays.

It’s probably one of the least family friendly careers ever, particularly in the early stages. How about looking into the civil service?

I also know people in their thirties who (unwisely) paid their own money for law conversion courses and were never offered a training contract anywhere. (Or at least anywhere they considered acceptable.) It was a brutal reality to bump into.

This is what worries me.

Yes, they do sadly. Try looking at in-house roles or Local Authority, you will get the flexibility you want, but sadly probably not the pay, it’s a trade off and difficult to find a role in law that offers a high salary with part time flexible hours. Maybe these positions do exist but they’re a bit like unicorn poo….very rare!

My dsil is a conveyancing solicitor in a medium size practice in south east (several regional branches)

Originally she worked in north London originally and the hours were relentless - expected level of productivity as a junior was enormous alongside extra studies. Not family friendly.

She moved to another firm and now earns a decent salary as a salaried partner but it’s VERY full time work. She does enjoy it , but finds there is a lot of unreasonable and unrealistic expectations and not much reward - her early career featured lots of promises of advancement not delivered. She doesn’t have kids.

Regarding small firms - you might possibly earn more stacking shelves in Tesco’s (without the crushing responsibility of dealing with people’s lives).