Nanny pay

[SallySooo]

I will likely get roasted for this but I’m interested in others’ thoughts. All the threads on nanny pay on various groups are constantly moaning about how parents don’t appreciate that nannies need to be paid X amount, etc etc and that employers are being well paid. Firstly no we are not. Most salaries in the corporate world have not caught up with inflation. Most people (employers of nannies) have not had a raise in years. I feel that nannies need to take some responsibility for the fact that they have chosen a career path where most employers are a mother and a father - not a huge corporation with deep pockets. In the same way that a lawyer may accept that if they work in a high street firm as opposed to a major firm their salary will be lower as the people paying the fees are normal people I feel that nannies need to take responsibility for the path they have chosen. All this woe is me. Own it. Rant over. I do actually think that nannies should be paid fairly BUT to make out that nice employers are monsters for negotiating the pay is irritating me.

How generous of you to be feel they should be paid fairly

It’s difficult because the cost to the employer is so huge vs what the nanny gets in their pocket.

And the number you need to earn yourself before tax is probably double that figure again because of your own tax and NI…

So eg I need to £100k gross to have £50k net to pay the nanny to get about £35k net (fag packet calculations). Everyone feels a bit hard done by!

I think they often struggle to find full time hours as so few people can afford it - which presumably mean they want to charge more for the hours they can get.

Well I suppose that depends on how much any individual nanny thinks they should be paid. How can anyone possibly comment on whether they are unreasonable to be asking for what they’re asking for if we don’t know what is.

😂

If you can’t afford a nanny, you can’t afford one! YABU to blame the nannies for charging too much - in a supply and demand system, they will charge what some people can afford to pay and why should they accept lower?

Times have changed. A generation ago a couple in the same careers as DH and I would be able to afford a nanny and private education. That’s no longer the case. It’s not the fault of nannies.

My brother and SIL earn many multiples of us in the corporate world and their nanny earns more than I do. Which is fair enough - they wouldn’t be able to do their lucrative roles without her.

Thanks for your comments. Indeed the tax system makes it very difficult. There could easily be a situation where someone is paying £5k per month and the nanny gets half that. Everyone feels hard done by. I still go back to the same point that childcare isn’t a lucrative career path. In the same way that being an artist isn’t lucrative unless you can really make it in the industry. Choices are being made by the nannies when they chose their career. My point being that employers are not monsters by tryin to negotiate the pay. If a lawyer says that to prepare a will for Mrs jones, it will cost 10k, people will say if you want those fees you shouldn’t be a wills & probate lawyer right

I don't understand. Isn't this covered by minimum wage?

Why have you not had a raise in years? I'd focus on that rather than nannies pay to be honest. Or should you just own that as thats your chosen career path (that doesnt give pay rises apparently)

If you choose an industry where your salary is paid by normal people, you have to accept that forever you’re negotiating salary with normal people. Like my wills & probate example. You’re not negotiating a salary with a huge corporation in the city. I’m not sure it’s fair to label these people as awful people. And no I don’t think Nannies should be underpaid. What I resent is horrible horrible language being used about parents who try to pay £18 instead of £22 per hour to make it work. Even if they’re not pushy they just ask. The Nannies get so angry.

It sounds to me that you simply cannot afford a nanny. Perhaps you or your husband should have chosen a more lucrative career path.

Not sure what the back story is here. Nannies are like any other service providers, they offer their services for the money they can get. There's nothing wrong with either side negotiating as they see fit. Weird the way you are talking about how nannies should accept negotiation, when you seem to mean they should accept your offer. If they can do better elsewhere, they will, if not, they'll take your offer. I've never had any issues at all, but then we paid our nanny nearly 40k (to them gross) about 10 years ago for 60 hours a week. If I i only had 20 hours to offer, they'd probably not accept 15k, which I would understand.

If you're referring to the old arrangements around providing net pay, then I'd agree, that was a bit of an odd situation and led to misunderstanding with one candidate who didn't seem to understand that when we operate payroll that means we're paying HMRC the tax plus the employer NI. She made very strange statements about tax breaks for us!

@TaxBrainthank you for your comment. I can afford a nanny actually.

The Nannies get so angry.

You sound pretty angry yourself.

I’m a nanny. I’m very good at what I do with 15 tears of experience. I will not even enter into a discussion with an employer who thinks they can nickel and dime me on what I’m worth. As it is, the £20-23 gross an hour I ask for is not a fortune, I’m certainly not left with much spare change once all my financial commitments have been met. Although I’m unable to take in a full time role now because I have my own child who I’m with when not at work.

Having a nanny is a luxury, and it is sadly true that many families are no longer able to afford it. The job market certainly is not what it was. However that does not mean that we should not be vocal about being paid a good rate to reflect what is essentially a tailored in-home childcare service. Of course that’s not going to come cheap.

@TaxBrain I’m not angry at all.

So why are you moaning about the cost?

Can you? It doesn’t come across that you do.

Having a nanny is a huge privilige and for the truly rich. You can take a living in aupair

I cant afford to pay a nanny, so I don't have one. I wouldn't expect a nanny to work for a pittance just to fit my budget.

I'm a nanny.

I agree that nannies should 'own it' in the sense that they should understand that nanny jobs, like all jobs, are reliant on market forces.

I'm know a lot of nannies and am a member of various groups and I can't say I'm aware of a large number of nannies using 'horrible language' to describe employers offering fair terms and conditions. If the groups you are part of experience this problem, I'd leave the group!

If you are offering significantly lower wages/poorer erms and conditions than other employers in your area then you may get short shrift from the nannies.

My advice would be to advertise the job clearly with wages included, that way any nanny who thinks you're taking the piss can just avoid it.

So presumably the same applies to all other childcare as it’s coming from the funds of a mother and father. Why are you just singling out nannies?

You dont really sound like you do.

Of all the things to get annoyed about 🙄

Everyone is trying to earn as much as possible, nothing wrong with negotiating.

Sounds like you could learn something from said nannies re your own emplyoment/ wages

Oh, and I’ve never used ‘horrible language’ about jobs posted with low pay. I have calmly and rationally called public ones out on Facebook groups for Nannies. There’s a lot of younger Nannies or ones that just become desperate to line up their next employment (I get it, I’m on the emergency temp nanny circuit currently and it’s not something I want to do long term) that they might just get taken advantage of. Same as with parents who want to pay ‘under the table’. Lots more of that about these days and leaves potential Nannies open to all sorts of exploitation.

We’ve had nannies over the years. It’s not about what’s fair, nor what you can or can’t afford. It comes down to demand. If you have a nanny with good experience in a high demand area then she will be highly sought after and expect to be compensated well.

I had to increase our employees salary by 25% in her last year with us. For no other reason than that was her worth and she was willing to move to a new family who was willing to compensate her at market rate.

You just don't want to pay them properly. Got it.

You know you are coming across as a total twat in this thread.. right?

The thing that I find frustrating with Nanny negotiation (and I’ve had this several times) is where they insist on a pay rate based on what they receive net. So they say “I have to receive £17.50 per hour net”. In no other circumstance have I ever come across an employee setting their pay by what they want to receive net.

I had an awkward and expensive start once when it was only at the last minute when the nanny turned around and said that they meant £17.50 after their own salary sacrifice pension contribution (meaning I had to increase the gross pay yet again to cover paying for her employers and employee pension contributions. And then later there was further misunderstanding because on agreeing the gross pay based upon her expected net pay she had not factored in that her personal allowance was entirely used up by her other part time position (which was entirely her own business and outside of my scope). And so then I felt I had to pay even more and then give her a crash course in tax codes. And this was a professional nanny who had been in the working world for at least 30 years. Agh.