to think that if you want to lose weight you need to stop eating all the time?

[OrmIrian]

There are some women in my office who are always talking about losing weight. Always. And at the same time they never seem to stop snacking. But it?s all low-fat, low-cal snacks, branded stuff like Weight watchers, Go-Ahead and their ilk. Never an apple. Or some carrots. Or anything that is actively good for you, just stuff that isn?t fattening. And then lunch will be more low-fat over-priced crap. Or a lettuce leaf with reduced fat cottage cheese. And then ten mins later a low-fat yoghurt. Are they really really that hungry that they need to stoke the fires all the time? Any if so why not just eat a normal meal with more calories and taste and then STOP SNACKING?

Or alternatively walk to work sometimes .

It's OK I am being sooo unreasonable even I want to tell myself off but for some reason it winds me up...

Sorry Kew, I still disagree. Everyone would be overweight if it came down to two digestives in the evening.
It is a simple of matter of burning off more calories than you consume over a period of time.
I don't think that slim people never eat anything that is high in fat they just do so responsibly and in balance.
Also, don't you get to a point where you are, say, three stone overweight and take action?

My pregnancy and I enjoy massive overeating of the wrong foods and despite the fact I lose it quite quickly I am never miffed at why I'm not a yummy Mummy for at least a year after the birth!!! (Some may say never a yummy mummy, but I like to hope!!)

MrsMattie - agree entirely that too many fat people shift the blame.

So much easier to say - it's the food's fault.

So much more courageous to say - it's my fault.

Mr Ruffallo and I enjoy a bottle of wine a couple of times a week, with cheese and biscuits.
Occasionally we have chocolate. We are not overweight at all. Because the majority of the time we eat a healthy low fat diet.
That's all there is to it really.

I think Kewcumber's point isn't that a glass of wine a day will make you fat, or two digestives or whatever. Her point is that a glass of wine or two digestives more than you need, every day, for a period of time, will make you put on weight slowly but surely.

The vast majority might not eat that extra biscuit or drink that wine every day, so the effect of that extra intake is cancelled out by a "leaner" day iyswim.

However if you are eating an extra biscuit or two every day, or a packet a week in one go - all other things being equal of course - then you will put on weight, possibly so slowly that you don't really realise it's happening.

[veteran]

"Everyone would be overweight if it came down to two digestives in the evening" - In the UK around 43% of men and 33% of women are overweight, and a further 22% of men and 23% of women fall into the obese category. This means that over half of the population is overweight.

Oh yes I'm always shifting the blame for being fat - I'm known for saying that.

Many many people who are overweight desparately lack self esteem becasue they are overweight precisely because they feel a failure and worthless becasue they struggle to lose weight in the face of "But just eat less and exercise more" comments.

But Kewcumber, all those obese people - they aren't all struggling with crippling self esteem issues are they? Am I the only one who was just a greedy, lazy bastard? Who preferred a takeaway to having to cook, Tv ot exercise, cake to fruit? I don't think so!

no I'm thinking of the category who are obese rather than those who are overweight.

People who are geneuinely obese who don't have significant issuees arounf self-esteem and a very odd relationship with food are rarer than hen's teeth (IMVHO).

They have started off just being greedy but once you've lived in an obese persons body in an image conscious world you develope a very strange self defeating attitude around food.

My road to obesity began with bulimia in my teens and was topped by severe depression in a foreign country. And the one overwhelming thing I felt about weighing 23 stone was relief, I was finally as fat as I always thought I was. It's odd to call it relief, but to have your head image and your body finally match up felt freeing. That was before the disgust firmly got hold of course. And you see, if you're obese you HAVE to loathe yourself, your own weakness, your own unattractiveness... well that's what society leads you to believe anyway. You're a weak failure who just can't have a bit of self-control.

The trouble is at that weight you're not talking a few months of eating right, of exercising, you're talking 1-2 YEARS of it. It's demoralising to start with.

I hung out at that time on a diet board for those with 100+ lbs to lose and every last one of those women had food issues. Not the same ones, there were the sexually abused who felt safe under a huge layer of fat, there were those who'd been depressed, there were those whose parents had fed them fat so young that their self-esteem was in tatters from years of negativity and bullying from others and they knew nothing else.

Um, Atkins isn't NO carbs and done properly it isn't unhealthy. Not at all. I ate more fruit and greens in my life when I was on that WOE than I ever did eating 'normally'. I just couldn't get back into it after having dd, as cooking from scratch every night with PND and a baby with severe reflux was beyond me. Hence the gain of 3 stone , which I've only just managed to shift (with the aid of Lighterlife). I'm now back low-carbing and feel great about it, never get hungry between meals and eat shedloads of salad and veg!

Quite agree lovecat. Of all the 'diets' I ever did Atkins was the most effective and easiest. And when I came off it I didn't pile on the weight as everyone warned I would. In fact when I start to put on weight I go back to lo-carb as a starting point.

The funniest is when people say things like: "oh I always do Weightwatchers, it always works for me".

Er - surely if it worked, you'd only ever have to diet once, and then stay slim forever? Or alternatively, change your way of eating and stick with it forever?

Agree with all the other posters about moderation and enjoying the food you eat, rather than consuming the additive-filled junk that the diet companies peddle and charge a fortune for.

The funniest is when people say things like: "oh I always do Weightwatchers, it always works for me".

Er - surely if it worked, you'd only ever have to diet once, and then stay slim forever? Or alternatively, change your way of eating and stick with it forever?

Agree with all the other posters about moderation and enjoying the food you eat, rather than consuming the additive-filled junk that the diet companies peddle and charge a fortune for.

I often wonder if one of the factors in this obesity epidemic is that we as a society are totally disconnected from our own sense of hunger/fullness. So we eat out of habit, or because we're sad, or for whatever reason, but not because we physically need to eat at that moment.

Whenever I see people distracting an unwilling baby to try and get the spoon in, I worry that they're training that baby to keep eating long after they've stopped feeling hungry.

I know, myself, that I can always fit a slice of cake in, no matter how full I think I am. Although of course, that's not greed, it's just that I have this separate "pudding stomach" which needs feeding too.

"...as a society are totally disconnected from our own sense of hunger/fullness".

I don't think the whole of society is disconnected from its sense of hunger/fullness . Lots of people still do eat three meals a day, don't snack, and are able to stop eating when they are full.

Just quite a high percentage of people who are, due to years and years of bad eating habits.

Ummm, i think you're right actually Anna, that was a bit of a sweeping generalisation!

I was thinking of myself though: I've never had a weight problem and I think I eat quite sensibly and well. But when I go hiking I'm prefectly all right on a handful of muesli and raisins and stuff despite hauling a backback up mountains. So I assume that in daily life I'm eating way more than I need to but am lucky to have a metabolism that can cope.

But fullness should also dictate when and what you eat during your meals. I think it's just as unhealthy to sit down to a meal and eat all of it when you don't want it. Listening to my hunger was one of the most important ways of losing weight - if I don't want to eat at lunch time I don't eat regardless of what the clock says. And if I can only eat a few mouthfuls I stop. And if I'm hungry later I will snack. But that is not the same thing as constantly nibbling at food just because it's 'diet' food. Snacking on some cheese and an apple will fill you up much more than a low-fat, low-sugar diet bar. And I don't beleive that half the snacking that goes on is due to hunger, just to habit.

Of course that goes against the grain of what you tell children. But I think that teaching them to ignore hunger and eat because the clock says so is not a good idea.

If you eat three reasonable meals a day you will be hungry at mealtimes. In order to keep your blood sugar as constant as possible (ie to have maximum energy) you really shouldn't skip meals.

The only good reason for having a very light meal in place of a normal one is if you have seriously overeaten at the previous meal. For example, my partner used to work in the restaurant industry, and he would have lunches where he would taste 30-40 dishes. So, instead of dinner, he would have a plain yoghourt and an orange, and several glasses of water.

No-one should ever think that they have to finish what is on their plate, however - stop when you are full.

you have discribed my sister, we joined ww together in jan and ive lost over 2 stone she had lost over a stone but has jsut put 5 back on i keep saying stop snacking and exercise but she wont listen

I often go without lunch anna. I do have a big breakfast though (mostly)

I'm not a big luncher myself - I tend to forget about it entirely, and then feel a bit odd in the afternoon and that reminds me to eat

But I have noticed that when the meal comes of its own accord (holidays, other people's houses) I generally feel a lot better when I have eaten at about 1pm than when I haven't...

I don't think that you should skip meals, it is no help. If you eat 3 regular meals a day then you shouldn't need a snack, it is much better to be hungrier at meal times.

Portion Control is the key.

Eat a healthy balanced diet and a little bit of what you fancy now and again will not hurt.

"People who are geneuinely obese who don't have significant issuees arounf self-esteem and a very odd relationship with food are rarer than hen's teeth"

I used to think this. But then I married into a fat family 10 years ago (MIL was obese now overweight, FIL obese, SIL1 overweight, SIL2 obese, 3 obese nephews/neices, 4 overweight nephews/neices), and it's been really fascinating for me to see how their food culture impacts on their eating habits and weight.

My husband's family are almost all oveweight, not because they eat junk food or because they binge - they're all great cooks, but because they simply eat huge portions of food all the time. They don't know what a normal, healthy portion of food looks like, and they serve the children and elderly members of the family the same sized portions as the teenage boys.

DH and I have got our heads round this whole portion control thingy at home now and we're very careful about how much we're eating. However, when we have extended family barbecues/meals my husband always slips back into his old ways and prepares 10 times as much food as anyone should be eating - and it all goes. I tell him 'The children don't need to have 4 sausages, two burgers, a couple of pieces of chicken and a portion of lasagna each (I kid you not), but he's frightened of looking mean and inhospitable so he ignores me. I sit there and cringe as I watch my SIL pile food onto her dads plate in huge mountains - my FIL who at 76 has had a stroke because of his hypertension and obesity - weighs 18 stone, can hardly get up the stairs or in and out of his chair......

Interestingly they're all really fatalistic about health - they say 'you could get run over by a bus tomorrow' or 'do you remember aunty Flo - smoked until her death at 90'. That doesn't help. I don't think this helps.

I honestly thnk the only thing that would change them would be to have someone lurking in their kitchen 12 hours a day policing their portion sizes.

And also to have a paediatrician sit down with my SIL's and point out to them that it's not healthy or normal for their children to have huge cellulity, wobbly guts hanging over the tops of their trousers! You'd think intelligent women would be able to see that their children are hugely FAT (not just big, but FAT) and know that this isn't good for them, but no - they talk with pride about how 'big' their children are, how the 13 year old is wearing an adult size 16 and the 10 year old is in a Marks and Spencer adult size 12 trousers because none of the waistbands will do up on the age appropriate clothes they pick out.

Exactly Fabsum - portion control.