Late stage capitalism, AIBU to ask “what comes next?”

[overthinkersanonnymus]

I have seen a lot of posts on SM saying we’re in late stage capitalism, what happens after this stage? What does it even mean?

Im not very savvy about politics and the economy etc, but is this a good thing or bad thing, that we’re in late stage?

You’re probably right, but I didn’t really state an opinion, just a very vague explanation of what’s happening. I’ve never had a pension, savings or investments unfortunately.

But if you want it, I think that within capitalism, communism, socialism or any other set-up, there will always be power-hungry people who fuck it all up at some point.

All the cultures that fully embraced women joining fully in the workplace are disappearing because it became normal for us to have less children and so white peoples are reduced from 25% of world population to 6% and continue to trend downward.
Chinese, Korean and Japanese societies are also experiencing erasure in the next 100 years.
The future is religious communities, Muslim populations are now make up a significant percentage of Europe’s population By 2050, France could have more muslim births than native French births.and the USA is becoming Catholic through immigration from Southern America.
I worry that woman’s rights may be rolled back in the next 50 -100 years,

I think late stage is supposed to refer to the point at which infinite growth is no longer possible.

Whereas I hear "with a captain who's legless"

Capitalism relies on boom and bust. If you get into a boom early you make big money (bit like a pyramid scheme). Eventually there is no more growth to be had and it goes bust. Some of the rich become poor, the poor gets poorer somehow. Then something new happens, bust time baby. Or you can bet on a bust and make big money (I think thats what Jacob Rees-Mogg did?) But I don't understand that bit so much. Needless to say, capitalism is as flawed as every other way of trying to work out how it should all go.

This. How long it takes I don't know. Its like believing we are living in the end of days but the end of days have been going on and on for years.

Lasted stage capitalism is a knowing jokey phrase to mean you know capitalism is not working and has to be replaced. People using the phrase dont have any better ideas.

People reject consumerism. Focus shifts from display of wealth to preservation and survival. The cheap ideals we cling to now fall away; there is no substance or sustenance in IKEA or the Kardashians.
We re-learn simplicity; home, family, nourishment. We don’t want ‘more’; we just cherish the minimum we actually need.
That’s what I hope for, anyway.

That sounds pretty good to me!

Unfortunately ( or fortunately) that's not the story of human progress. Its always been about wanting more- to find out more, exploring different areas, wondering what else was out there. Wanting a ' simpler life' and appreciating what we have is born out of privilege, and the privilege of having much more than we need, and that has come on the backs of people who were not satisfied with what they have and discovered more. In any case, what is enough? 1200 calories worth of food per person a day, a roof over your head, 3 boiler suits and and thats it? Who is going to administer the global rationing that would require? Why would they bother administering it for others if not for more reward? Anyone could also choose to live like that now. The only people who do are those with no choice.

See, I feel like in some respects feudalism is already making a comeback. The only growth area of employment for many people is service work, or work in warehouses owned by the uber wealthy (eg Bezos and his Amazon warehouses). Workers in some areas are effectively therefore mostly reliant on one person/organisation to maintain jobs in the area, just like when it was the ‘big house’ from whence all work and funds flowed. As housing becomes more expensive, people are more likely to be tenants. Their landlords are more likely to be large, faceless organisations than a wealthy family, but again it creates a situation where many people’s housing in an area depends on pleasing the person / organisation who owns it all, and who can therefore dictate how their tenants live (no painting your house, mow your front lawn weekly etc) Individual freedoms being curtailed, with wealth being coalesced into the hands of the few.

You might find it interesting to read Rhe Mandibles by Lionel schriver.

Its fiction but I mentioned it on another thread in relation to "does hard work pay anymore?"

@AllTheChaos is fairly.on the money imo and the book touches on this too.

One answer

It's an interesting question, in principle the more wealth is generated by automation the less we have to work, in practice that doesn't happen. AI is now doing for the professions what factory automation did for factory workers, they won't disappear but far fewer will be needed, so what happens when 5% of the available workforce can generate every product and service society needs?
The challenge for capitalism is it needs paying consumers, if it becomes so 'efficient' that it employs very few people, where do the consumers come from?
It's anyone's guess how this works out but I don't envy younger people entering their working life right now.

We’re coming to the end of the oil-age and it’s going to be a rough ride.

Capitalism in its current turbo globalised form has been running on fossil fuels, which we are transitioning away from. There will be price shocks, there will be conflict, vested interests may well muddy the waters and sow division to eke out further fossil powered wealth. There will be displacement of populations, and further increases in inequality.

At the same time, climate change will continue to make things even tougher. Food and energy security will increasingly be put at risk. Countries will grab land ready for future food needs. Bleak.

in principle the more wealth is generated by automation the less we have to work

This only works if the wealth is distributed. If it’s all held in the hands of a few billionaires - the ones who own the automated factories/AI - then there’s a problem. Ultimately it affects the billionaires too, as you say, they will run out of consumers.

We may see a future in which the likes of Musk and Bezos pay the rest of us an allowance so we can buy their products and keep them rich 🤷‍♀️

Techno-feudalism. Or maybe something worse.

Whatever it is I don't think it will be pretty. Over the last year or so, I am frequently finding myself relieved that I haven't any children.

To be fair, with capitalism we have a few mega wealthy people who will do anything to stay at the top, and many people living in poverty - a fair proportion of those poor people are producing food and goods for wealthier countries.

And yes, if I was persuaded it would help and things would improve as a result, I'd agree to my pension not growing for a year and to pay more tax - though my pension is tiny and my income is less than our outgoings so it would actually hurt us at the very least short term.

I think Eisenhower wasn't wrong about the military industrial complex.

I can’t wait for it to be over. We’ve collectively lost our minds and are driven only by a load of useless stuff. The novelty is over, time for something new. Time will tell if that’s an equalising utopia guided by technology or a total catastrophe before something new emerges.

There was an excellent documentary made about it in 2005 called "Why We Fight". I have it on DVD but Google says you can watch it on Amazon Prime and Apple TV.

Albert Einstein is often quoted as having said: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones".

Perhaps that rationing will be fuelled by individuals. Individuals who become utterly fed up of chaining themselves to the wheel in order to pay ever increasing prices for products that are continually subject to enshittification.

Everything from chocolate to insurance has become more expensive and so shite it's hardly worth buying.

The story of human progress (or at least since people stopped being content to sit in a hut with one outfit and one bowl) has been progress. Better materials, better products, better everything. Since the 1920s things have been on a mass produced decline and since 2000 quality has dropped off the scale.

People won't go on buying crap chocolate or 20p dresses that fall apart.

Capitalists and industrialists will have to return to quality in order to get people buying again. That and a mini workers revolution would be better for the environment and people in my opinion.

I don't need a documentary to know that ultimately "we" fight for resources. The only real learning is to review how many different ways it gets repacked to continually confound the cannon fodder masses.

I agree. The amount of poorly made crap I have had to return over the past year has been ridiculous. There will come a tipping point where its more expensive to keep giving out refunds and throwing stock away than it is to make better quality more long lasting stuff. But thats capitalism. The people buying junk off Temu and Shein are middle aged women spending an average of £80 a month. They arent poor or young. They love buying shit off Temu. Evil multinationsls cant survive without shitloads of people buying endless amounts of crap made by 7 year olds in the Far East. If people stopped buying rubbish because the hassle and annoyance of having to return it after 6 months is more expensive and irritating than either not buying it in the first place ( crap chocolate) or forces people to seek out alternatives that either they can physically see or are better made then those things will return because thats where the money is. It wasnt protests that causes Elon Musk to leave DOGE it was people not buying Teslas. I do hope that will happen because as you say, it's far better environmentally but it has been proven that it can and does happen under Capitalist systems, whereas it hasnt happened under Communist systems- or only to the extent of the masses living on their loaf of bread and boiler suit rations while their leaders are living it up in a palace.

Authoritariansim with government and corporations ruling without checks or balances.