Divorce Guilt

[rarestone]

I have not posted before but have benefited form mumsnetters perspectives for a long time so am hoping fellow folks who have been there and done that can help me see clearly because I am in the woods right now. So been married to DH for 18 years, we have 3 DCs. He has anger issues and has been shouty at us all when he gets angry. Over the years, I responded by retreating and not answering back because any response even if it is to try to explain would make him 110% worse. When he shouts he really loses it. He used to break toys but I told him this was no good and he stopped years back. However, the shouting behaviour remains and I have told him and tried to explain there are better ways to respond. After the shouting outbursts he tends to be withdrawn for while, sometimes lasting days. I suggested therapy to which he responded he was not mad. In between, these moments, he is very hands on. He is very good at DIY, maintains the house, cooks, cleans and has been very present for the kids. He will take them to the park if needed etc. He goes to work so is not a lazy slob. The shouting behaviour has really got into all of the children, they tell me they dont like him- DCs are aged 14, 12 and 9. They have all said they want us to separate. His relationship with eldest is particularly bad as she is the one who has reported him to school and social services. He has responded to this by further alienating her and playing favorites with the 2 youngest but they come to me and say they dont like he is playing favorites. Eldest Dc is well behaved generally and has been very focused on school. When he shouts it is for things like tidying up her bedroom Eldest Dc has mental issues now and has gone from being committed to school to just crumbling. She used to refuse to miss a day of school, now I have to drag her, she is just withdrawn and is affected by dad's behaviour. Her mock exam results were shocking even to the teachers, they know she is not right mentally. She has written to school to say she has suicidal thoughts. I am of course very supportive of her and have arranged therapy for her which she is taking positively and she says she depends on to function. The situation has created 2 camps in the home, and I can sense my DH is not of course happy with how I get on with her and everyone else.
He feels he is very much a victim, this is what he told Social Services. Social services advised they will downgrade the situation to family support who are yet to start. He was thrilled by the response from SS and came back home to shout even more celebrating he had been let off and his DD was wrong and he is very right and he will keep on asserting his role as the father so she better brace herself.
The festive season was horrible as he was withdrawn whilst i was playing with the kids. Anyway I gathered the strenthg to tell him that I think we better separate, I also said i wanted the kids to know. Anyway, it has been a few days now since but I have been eating my heart out, am I right?The guilt I feel is immense. All DCs are happy and looking forward to a life with just me. I have double checked with them and they are very much sure this is what they want. It is me who is going through emotional turmoil.
We are in the same house due to finances and so far things are going as normal, he is very good at cooking, so meals together, there is no animosity as yet, we just talk as usual and watch TV together etc.
Can someone please help me untangle this. Part of me thinks I am letting a good man go but then I listen to my DCs and watch my daughter. I thought I would look forward to independent life but am having doubts. I am not worried about finances as I feel can manage. For reference we are both in our late 40s and am thinking I will age alone. It just tears me to break us apart, I feel I am being unfair, he has changed their nappies, he has woken up in the middle of the night when they were younger so he has put in all the effort as a dad although with fault as already explained.
So far he has said he will change and he wants to apologise to DD and the others. I told DCs that dad will apologise and they said OK but they still wouldnt want to live with him!
Mumsnetters please help me decipher this, why do I feel conflicted. please be kind, it has been a difficult time.

A couple of things, if someone gave you a cup of tea with a small 1p sized amount of poo in it is it a good cup of tea? It doesn't matter what he does around the house he is abusive to his children and instead of thinking he needs to work on his anger he was gloating about social services not immediately wanting him removed from the house and being "let off."

Secondly, I bet on my fucking life he is not shouty at work, to his parents, his mates because he is able to control his behaviour with everyone else but you get the absolute worst of him.

Abusive people cycle through being great (housework, cooking) and being angry, shouting at their children and you have stopped challenging him because it makes him even worse.

The best thing is you finally calling it a day on the abuse your children are suffering, have told you they are suffering, they should always be your first priority. This sort of behaviour destroys children.

fast forward a few years my children may blame for splitting the family apart

My Dad was like your husband, my Mum’s regret is that she didn’t go sooner

A good man?

Ruins your eldest's mental health, schooling, and probably blueprint for life.

Makes all your kids unhappy and old before their time.

Doubles down on shouting after stretched social services (quite rightly) downgrade him, but not let him off the hook, and he doesn't understand that doesn't make him right?

Makes you think all this still makes him a good man because he isn't beating you all to a pulp on the hour, and once changed some nappies when the kids were too little to do anything with but control?

Cop yourself on, OP. Ducks in a row. Get out of this.

I'm so sorry this ever happened to you, you are as much of a victim as your children. But now, until you leave, you are letting this happen to you all. Your poor kids are begging you for help. Get all the help you can to fix this, and don't look back.

All about you here OP isn’t it? What happened to you, what the kids will think of you… ultimately they’ve told you how they feel, ignore it longer and they will hate you no matter what you do. No more excuses or wo is me. Your kids come first now, not you or DH

This is such a good point about not being shouty at work, at his family or his mates. My my abusive ex would never of raised his voice to his family and was very successful at work.

Emotional abuse has a longer lasting impact that physical abuse.

Contact Womens aid or other Domestic Violence charities and they will support you.

Also be vigilant as women are most at risk when they are in the process of leaving so although he hasn't been physically abusive so far this could change in an instant.

I would say that you need to get your children, especially your daughter, away from this man immediately. It won’t be long until your other children will experience the same difficulties as your daughter. Even if it means a women’s refuge for a while.

He is terrorising you and your kids. He is clearly abusive and the only "good mum" thing to do in this situation is to leave him. Push the divorce through and don't look back.

I grew up in the environment like this. My
mum was too weak to leave my dad. He was shouty and emotionally abusive. I hated him as a child. I was the eldest daughter and was suicidal as a teen too, as I felt trapped in the toxic environment- living in a constant fear. I was begging my mum to divorce our dad since I was 12. It never happened. You are sacrificing/ damaging your children for a man who can’t control himself. Your guilt is misplaced. Don’t feel guilty for leaving an abuser( he isn’t a good man).

Two thoughts. I think feeling guilty is very common, even when there really is nothing to feel guilty about. This feeling will pass - so don’t let it distract you from something you and your children want.

Secondly, I imagine me behaving as my ex used to, and saying/shouting some of the things he used to say/shout, and using the same tone of voice as him. It’s funny, but it really gives insight into their thinking sometimes, and it’s feels so alien, and wrong - that you finally realise they have absolutely no excuse for it and have been doing it for truly selfish reasons.

It makes a lot of the guilt fade away.

If you can move out, I would make this a priority otherwise you will end up slipping back into the relationship because it is functional & convenient on a practical basis. The relationship sounds quite unpleasant & abusive & it won’t stop until you are physically separated & the same for the children’s relationship with dad.

I know you're having a hard time and I accept that withdrawing is your way of coping hut my heart breaks for your eldest, as well as the others, who are basically having to make the adult decision for you.

I get that you think you need their approval to make them happy hut you need to really grasp the bull by the horns here and own the adult decision: you are ending your relationship because his treatment of you is unacceptable. You will not let him treat his kids this way. So strong are you in this conviction that it actually doesn't matter if they want dad home or not, you are making the adult choice.

You have to take charge as its really not fair that they have basically had to end the relationship for you as kids. Your DD has driven SS involvement, spoken to other safe adults etc, she is crying out for support and you need to underpin that by helping however you can, for examllenone way is to take the guilt off her shoulders. And you need to prepare yourself that at some point they will be angry that they had to be the adults so stop putting them in that position today and own the decisions. Currently it comes across like they are helping you more than you are helping them and as their mum, you need to step up even if standing up to their dad has you shaking in your boots because it's 10x worse for them.

Thank you all for your input, leaving is the best decision and makes sense. I needed to hear this so I can stay focused when doubt creeps in. you are right about not shouting outside the home, he has the image of an angel. To his friends he is very much the victim although his sibling did suggest therapy to him. He claimed being a victim to SS and they described him as very expressive, so he did put up a very good act. This thread will be my source of strength as I make the journey because I just get a wave of different feelings, sometimes it is the sense of freedom from him and a new life with the DCs, sometimes it is overwhelming guilt and it is the constant questioning that just wears me down.
I guess you are right about the fear of being single, am definitely scared of that too. But i am already taking care of DCs on my own especially emotionally as they cannot say what they tell me to their dad. As far as my eldest is concerned I am very much taking care of her on my own as DH is a no go.
I will do this, please keep your thoughts coming and if you have been there done that please share any tips as I gear up for a journey into the unknown.

oh wow, this is an eye opener. I have noticed how when he is angry he shouts 'you need to respect me, it is my house', he repeats 'it is my house' several times. goodness me, these emotional outbursts have messed with my head, at some point i have questioned my sanity if i am making him to be bad when he is not. it is the children that have steered me in the right direction, otherwise i would not have seen it at all. thank you for opening my eyes mumsnetters!

And he told his daughter, who's having suicidal thoughts, that she'd better "brace herself" (was that a direct quote?) because he is going to "assert" himself as father.

These men are tyrants. They see their families as possessions, extensions of themselves, and the anger you see is narcissistic rage because their belongings talk back when they should be in total submission to the lord and master. My father once even called himself "master of the house" and he wasn't joking. That was how he saw himself. And unhinged, deranged, screaming fits when he felt he'd lost control because we didn't act like his puppets, and all while demanding we respect him, his house, his property, his his his. And yes, all moral righteousness was his too.

You're lucky it hasn't turned physical yet. They absolutely lose it when their narcissism is thwarted. I wish I'd had the resources and presence of mind of your eldest. I was her. Get them away from him. Thank God they know that they need to be.

Just a thought regarding social services, is it worth your daughter filming him have these outbursts so if it does get messy or SS need to be involved again she has proof of his behaviour?

@rarestone If you Google 'how to leave a relationship safely' there is loads of good advice online, I strongly recommend you start with digital safety:

womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/cover-your-tracks-online/

There is some useful advice here;

womensaid.org.uk/information-support/the-survivors-handbook/

Gingerbread also have a useful website.

www.gingerbread.org.uk/find-information/managing-separation/leaving-abusive-relationship/

Agree with all of this apart from saying the OP's husband 'can't control himself'. Absolutely 100% he can control himself, he is choosing not to because his thinks he's perfectly entitled to treat his family as he does.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to share your insights. I hear your voices loud and clear and this helps me find clarity in what is a difficult time. I am committed to my DCs and have started the process to do what is right for them.

I grew up in a house just like this, except it was my mother who behaved like your husband (could he have borderline personality disorder? Might be worth a google).

Please take your children away from this. My dad didn’t, and the consequences and damage has been lifelong. I’m only ok as I had years and years of therapy. My brother didn’t and has clinical depression.

Your children have told you what they need which is incredibly courageous of them. And you deserve better than living in this toxic life day to day.

Please leave. I know neither option feels good or right right now, but there is a happier end in sight if you do.

Sending love x

So sad to hear. I am leaving, thanks to the reassurance I have received here. I just needed another voice from someone who isn't emotionally involved. The impact on DCs is too much to ignore. Sending you love too x

He is verbally and emotionally abusing your child to the point that she is suicidal. Your kids are telling you to leave their father. They are acting like your parent not the other way round. Leave with your kids. You can't afford not to. Your older 2 are old enough to decide if the want to see him or not. Unfortunately, the 9 year old will be stuck with him for a few years.

Thank you @PardonMe3, the wheels are in motion now, figuring out the logistics of it all.