To ask for advice or thoughts on how to move on from MILs theft/ identity fraud

[Justonedilemmamn]

Name change so as not to out myself.

I can't go into too much detail as it will be outing but I can say that DHs mother did identity fraud and siphoned between 70k and 150k over approx 8 years from his bank account, and in such a way that he did not notice but felt very poor, iyswim as she was crafty and he was daft and trusting. She also got him to take out a loan larger than he needed and kept the rest. Anyway I can't go into more precise detail as I think sil is on here but that is the jist and it is absolutely true and I still find it shocking to say or write down and I have noone to talk about it with irl as it his business his family and I don't feel it's mine to discuss with friends.

It really harmed him financially and has deeply traumatised him as like anyone would he trusted his mother completely. His dad must have been in on it too as theyclearly lived way beyond the means of their salaries over that time. His brother minimised it and said he'd always been given a lot and he shouldn't mind helping out. There was no real apology or recognition of the harm done to him. Mil blamed it on drinking too much and said she would stop. She never has. She did take out a loan to repay the loan she got him to take but that was a fraction of what was taken overall.

I can't speak to his family as a result since this came to light. I tried for a while as it was just swept under the carpet but after a while I just couldn't. At the time of finding out i wanted to press charges but he understandably, couldn't. He has tried low contact and is having to be no contact now as he gets so distressed and triggered for a while after seeing them. He is having therapy which is helpful.

We have a big life event coming up that would usually be a family event with all invited. I just dont think I can bear the pain of watching him put a brave face on and suffer through trying to do right by them. I also don't think I can bear to have them there.

I feel so lost with this as I don't know how to support him to keep some kind of relationship going or to support him go no contact, whichever he wants. Or how to processes something I just don't understand how anyone could do this to their child. He is one of the kindest most loving people you could meet who sees the good in everyone and I feel so angry and protective of him. We earn equally and everything has worked out and we have bought our home etc but it has certainly made practicalities like that harder and been a difficult start for us but that isn't what I'm angriest about. It's that someone could do this to their own child and not pay every penny back and really take accountability.There seems to be no remorse. There was also a history of physical/ emotional abuse and intimidation of him from both parents so I suppose this is an extension of that?
So I wondered if anyone had any wise words on how to move on as I am really struggling particularly when I want to say look let's just completely cut them off there's no getting over this and we may as well be honest to others about why it is they aren't there at the upcoming big deal life event, as he has only told his best friend the truth of why he doesn't see them much. I think most of his friends probably think it's me that has driven the wedge which also makes me sad as this is not true.
Sorry for the ramble and thank you your thoughts in advance and also in case this sounds like hairy hands nonsense, I absolutely promise this is completely true but I really can't go into more detail and cant give any more info.

Duplicate post.

That's awful. Not quite in the same league but my father 'borrowed' a substantial amount of money off a sibling and then later refused to pay it back denying it was a loan and all sorts of shit. His love of money > his children tore the family apart and us kids now no longer in contact/ vlc. I personally haven't spoken to him in 2 years.

Its the betrayal of trust and sense that you literally mean less to them than £xxx.

No advice other than i found counseling very helpful to come to terms.

What an awful situation. The best thing for your DH is the therapy, it will help him to come to terms with understanding that he can’t have what it sounds like he might still be hoping for - a normal relationship with normal parents. Coming to such a realisation is emotionally heart breaking and will take time.

The only people he’s protecting by not talking about it openly are his parents and siblings. He may also feel a sense of embarrassment.

Have you considered therapy for yourself? You might find it helpful to manage and understand your own emotions towards his family and ensure you’re at your strongest to support him. I have had plenty myself due to tricky family relationships and find it invaluable.

Sadly this type of financial abuse is more common than many people realise. I worked for someone when I had not long left school whose father was dealing with the aftermath of theft from his family business by a trusted niece. He retired earlier than planned and passed the business to his sons who had realised what was happening whereas he refused to believe them until his accountant exposed it. It basically broke him.

I understand that you can’t decide for your DH how he deals with his DPs, but you absolutely do get to say whether they come to this event if it involves you directly eg your anniversary or your child’s birthday.

I think planning something different might be a very good way forward. There is no reason why you have to have a family dinner or party for a milestone anniversary, for example. DH and I went on holiday for our 30th, even though our silver was closed down by Covid lockdown. PIL went away with two friends for their 50 th and 60 th.

Does your DH accept that taking his money is taking your shared marital resources? Or have I misunderstood and it happened before you were together?

I think the therapy is the wisest choice your DH is making. As frustrating as it is for you, I think you need to go at his pace. Let him make the decisions and choices. He may not do what you think is wisest, but remember that he’s grown up with dysfunction and it’s not going to be easy for him to adjust.

from personal experience, it’s an awful feeling knowing that your partner thinks you should be ‘doing something’ or behaving in a particular way, or ‘over it by now’. That just added extra pressure when what I needed most was loving support. I’m not suggesting for a second that you are putting your DH under any pressure or influence. All I’m trying to say is that sometimes it may be best to let him work through this with his therapist while supporting him with a loving and strong family unit he knows will always be on his side.

this must be hard for you to witness and experience. Do you have anyone you can chat it through with?

I think you need to weigh up the potential harms and possible good that would come out of having them at this event.

The event is yours and DHs? (like an anniversary?) then you get to invite people who will celebrate and love you unconditionally.

Both of you get to veto attendees (so a "two yesses" scenario) without recrimination or questioning (or badgering) by the other. That's the suggestion i would put. Because if it just boils down to you not wanting them there, and he insists they are there - it won't be a celebration for you. And in the long run probably not for him but that is why he is having therapy.

Assuming this was not family money, and his personal money? because it is a lot and in theory, half of it is/was yours if it was family money - and i would be furious at being told not to call in the police over it. (but that is me, and you are clearly not like that)

Bottom line: i wouldn't be able to celebrate my own event, or a joint event, with family members who had treated my DH so appallingly. If it is his own event - i would not attend. (but make plans to swoop in if i thought he needed my help)

You need to be led by him. Whatever he feels comfortable with should be the driving approach, except where you feel he is setting himself up to be abused again (then you should speak up).

I had a different but actually quite similar situation with my mum. Totally different events, but one that completely shook my perception of trust and safety.

My mum facilitated contact between a convicted paedophile and my children. She knew what he had done (he told her), but she thought that he wouldn’t do it to my children and she could keep them safe. Ironically, while all this was going on behind my back, another family member was convicted of child sexual offences and she absolutely went on the offensive, about what a horrible person he was, about how sick his wife was by standing by him, about how awful it was that they had lied to me and the risk that they put my children at, how they should never see them again.

Then several years later, I found out what she’d been doing all along and it was like my entire sense of what was safe and true about the world collapsed around me. To have the one person in the world who is meant to look out for you and protect you be so sinister and manipulative while playing happy families just felt like it turned the world upside down. I no longer knew who to trust or what to believe. It was like being stuck perpetually in a carnival funhouse. Everyone telling me things were normal, but I looked in the mirrors and it was all funny and distorted.

It completely broke me and it took probably about 5 years to really crawl back out. I still don’t trust people, but I have a bit more peace with it. I am NC with my mum and my entire family. My children thankfully were not harmed, though others were. I’m in a good place now, mostly. What did help was that Dh took a supporting role. He let me do and say what I needed. Tell people whatever I needed to tell people. Make decisions about the relationships I wanted to have and just let me do what I needed and picked up the pieces when I needed them picked up. He has been a star and I’m very grateful for it.

As for invitations to this event, no way in hell I’d be inviting them. It doesn’t mean you have to be forever NC, but you deserve peace and calm. Give yourself peace and calm and an opportunity to enjoy your day. Don’t martyr yourself for someone who doesn’t give a shit about you.

OP it strikes me that your description of your husband's behaviour and feelings suggest that he is experiencing a great deal of shame. That's totally understandable but if I was going to focus on one thing as a partner I think it would be to try to break through that sense of shame. Emphasise that he is the victim. His family's awful behaviour does not reflect on his behaviour as a son or brother. It's nothing he could have helped or changed: it is their fault as the people who perpetrated it and he has nothing to be ashamed of.

That is so terrible. No wonder the burden for you is awful. You’re put in a position - because it is not reported & he maintains at least some sort of relationship with them- where you are required almost in some sense to collude in crime by pretending it did not happen. (I know that’s an extreme way of putting things & hope it is not offensive.) Of course you don’t want to do this! It must offend every principle!

In your position I would encourage DH to pursue the therapy & to break off contact with these appalling people meanwhile, rather than just low contact- and would re-imagine the upcoming celebration on that basis. The fact that he doesn’t want to report them is a symptom of ongoing, massive psychological damage caused to him by abuse & perhaps the therapy may start to address that.

Certainly in your position I would never be speaking to them again. (Well, in fact in your position I almost certainly would have reported it to the police myself, even without consent from DH, as I think criminals and abusers need to be prosecuted and should not escape because they have psychologically destroyed their victim.)

The poor man- how he must have suffered. I hope he can find some peace in his loving & supportive relationship with you.

Can you go to the police?

I'm really sorry you have been through similar. It's such a shocking betrayal. I'm really pleased reparations were made things were made right. I think telling a version of the truth is likely to keep my DHs dignity and privacy for him. I would love to shout it from the rooftops but never ever would.

I agree with this. In some ways your dh, with resoect to his parents, will be a young child struggling to reconcile the abuse with the notion that parents are supposed to love their children and children their parents. As an outsider you can play the role of the adult who says “this is not ok”—like a teacher, neighbour, outside authority. He needs that clarity. He longs (secretly) for that defender even if he can’t accept that comfort easily.

If you read books about trauma you will see that he is, in a sense, suffering from what is called the “moral wound” which occirs when one is betrayed and injured by one’s authority figure. Soldiers in war betrayed by country/captain/comrade get it and experience PTSD, loss of faith, depression, etc… Children get it too but often choose, perforce, to submit and attach snd fawn over their abuser/betrayer. He has to work it out for himself and resvue himself to build a life free and clear of their abuse.

Its about the money but its not snout the money. I think there is something clarifying about the money, though, as it is outside the control and definition of the family.

I would sort of stand on thus point. I would just say, calmly “ They stole from both of us. They lied to both of us. They hurt you, my DH, the person I love and respect. I can never forgive or forget that. No amount of apology or money paid back would even touch the sides. So no going to theirs (for me) or hosting them (for me). They are like a pusher to a drug addict to you. I won’t be complicit in their abuse of you under any circumstances.”

I think he needs and longs for that clarity snd structured support but can’t say it for fear of consequences/shame/ disloyalty. But he is a victim, with respect to them still s child victim. He needs a safe distance to heal.

This is shocking and I can well believe it broke him. Yes to doing things differently - we may have the party abroad. The thefts stopped 2 years into our relationship because I started questioning things but I would t say it was family money as we had not committed to living together etc at that point.

Yes exactly - it does feel like collision when I think the law should deal with their actions fully. Mil also works in a position where I am sure she has stolen but it is at that point that I have to think - this is outside of my circle of influence. Yes he has suffered so much. We talked this morning and he examined that he is working on the idea that he can accept what they did and how they hurt him but still love them. I have to respect the pace of the journey he is on and I am very impressed and inspired by his wish to forgive, which I certainly am unable to do. I would prefer to see them punished through the law, yes.

Thank you. I think this is spot on. He is suffering from a moral wound and it has been such a shock I think it's taken years to come to terms with the fact that it actually happened.

Yes there is something about him believing on some level that he 'allowed' it to happen by not being more aware rather than seeing a competent thief manipulated and gas lit him. There seems to be shame in that it happened and both his parents and siblings are complicit, abusive liars. I was going to write and that they seem normal and fine to the outside world but the reality is they don't.

This is such a terrible thing for your mum to have done and it sounds like your DH really supported you and I will also try and do as he has done and help with whatever pace etc that he needs. I'm so sorry that you went thru this and I am relieved your children were unharmed

Yes absolutely I completely agree - it is the worst feeling when a partner is like eye roll are we still talking about this? It takes as long as it takes and the path to healing and recovery is not always clear I don't think you can always see what bit you are on but sometimes things just feel better and less heavy. I do have a therapist that I can talk to and I have done and I will raise again next see ssuon. My work for now seems to be holding multiple truths and sitting with it - it's true my DHs family are criminals, it's true that he loves them even so and it's true I want absolutely nothing to do with any of them.

Change banks

or

Have more than one bank account, I have several different bank accounts

Put savings into "non easy access accounts"

Surely there is a way to protect your income & savings ?

I can understand why he feels like this but I think taking some - any - action could help him get over this horrendous betrayal. Help him to feel less helpless.

good luck to you both. What a horrible situation. Your DH sounds like a wonderful man.

Thank you - he is. Some times I think his ability to take the higher road is due to trauma bonding but he explains to me that could be possible but he reallybdoesnwnat to live a life of forgiveness. Personally I would be baying for full payback and legal consequences. He is not. Very inspiring and quite humbling tbh.

Without going into details about the technicalities of how the thefts occurred, because mil was committing identify theft and effectively blocking his access to his bank accounts there was little he could do until it all came to light. We now have multiple safeguards on our bank accounts and check and clarify all spends with eachother on a weekly basis and the transparency does seem to help him.

I would never "move on" from this and would hate the fuckers until they died and beyond.
They have no place at any family events and if anyone questions it tell the truth

I think the way I think about this is that he does need to capture some kind of agency here. Agency comes in many forms. For some it would be suing or bringing ehatvis hidden to light. But for others it might look different.

Your dh is very caught up in windy abstractions like foregiveness. I am sure it was taboo in his family for him to express anger or “willfullness” of any kind. So he has the feeling of a dog trained with a shock collar. As he gets close to the limit he feels fear in advance of the shock. He won’t go near the boundary for fear of the pain.

To the extent that he keeps returning to the relationship he is also doing and redoing hoping that his submission and avoidance will make him, in their eyes, a good boy worthy of love. One day, perhaps, they will recognize his forbearance and tearfully thank him.

Of course they never will . “The strong do as they will And the weak suffer as they must” is the family motto.

On a day to day level I think I would return power to him by saying, frankly “do what you want but with open eyes. Your forgiveness and your care for them are both indifferent to them. They don’t care about you the way you want and going to see them won’t change that. Do what you feel you must but recognize that you choose what you do. You won’t change their response.”

I find this sad because they have actually done something illegal to him. I hope he can come to terms with his parents doing this to him. My children mean the world to me and I would never try to steal from them. They are bad people imho.