Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That ASD needs to be better categorised

673 replies

Noras · 29/12/2025 22:22

As someone with a DS adult who seems destined for supported living or maybe living independently with PA wrap around as AIBU to think that ASD should be better defined.

i read about people who managed to mask ASD until say aged 52 and I can’t help but feel that it’s a World away from our lives as carers of DS.

He is at university with 37 hours per week PA support.

There is no masking with DS. We have just returned from holiday and pretty much all the staff knew of DS by the end eg someone said ‘oh he’s your son we were trying to think of ways to help him engage in the events’ etc

He has low self esteem and really low moods.

He is petrified of the outside World so we have to facilitate any social life be it with a PA or a drop off to a safe place and then we are on tender hook a waiting to pick up.

Social services class him as highly vulnerable - he’s like a 12 year old in some ways but an adult

I or the PA agency organise all his taxi pick ups and drop offs and all his rotas etc

I organise his activities eg clubs / events any social thing

I organise his clothing / dentist / even reminders to take meds / brush teeth etc

We run his finances / he has no interest - we discuss with him and he just nods

There is no masking - he talks to himself / he can rant in an outlandish way

it seems so wrong that it’s bunched in with all this late diagnoses stuff as it’s so so different.

im not decrying all this ‘ I masked until aged 53’ but it seems like a different thing entirely. People need to understand that otherwise my DS needs won’t get his needs met eg he struggles with public transport and will need a seat so he does not get brushed against and as it is he has a shut down and goes onto a weird sleep.

Sadly people have a level of sympathy and my concern is that it’s being eroded.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
isargosaword · 30/12/2025 00:51

Yes I have an autistic DS, not as severe as some children but attends special school, very developmentally behind etc.

I find it very frustrating that we don’t actually know what autism actually is, let alone what factors may cause it. We can recognise it, see it manifesting but it’s literally just defined by its own symptoms.

EsmeSusanOgg · 30/12/2025 00:52

Noras · 30/12/2025 00:32

Also I don’t understand why we are not screaming out for a cure. If someone has a disease they want someone trying to cure it.

Can for instance viral damage to the nervous system be reversed?

I think because sometimes your brain working differently to someone else's is not curable. And not is it always desirable to 'cure'. What many people want is a society that is inclusive enough for as many people as possible to lead happy, healthy lives. With things like autism, it is more about having the right support, early enough to make a positive difference. With waiting lists for initial appointments exceeding 5 years in some places that is not currently happening. The long term impact of Covid is going to take either a lot of time, or a lot of money to overcome.

HaveYouFedTheFish · 30/12/2025 00:52

ladycardamom · 30/12/2025 00:39

Sorry am I missing something I thought it was ASD Level 1, 2 or 3. Is that only an Aus thing?

That's only countries which use the DSM (American) instead of the ICD (World Health Organisation).

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/12/2025 00:53

Noras · 30/12/2025 00:44

I feel that everyone is rushing to get diagnosed ( understandably)

Maybe it might help one day as for those who get diagnosed later in life - if their grandkid has more profound ASD but the mum ( their child) caught a virus or had some issues during the gestation period that might confirm theories.

Perhaps those with this genetic disposition should be identified/ screened and more carefully looked after during pregnancy eg offered the CMV and other jabs etc or told to avoid people with flu / painkillers unless to control temperature and definitely zero alcohol.

I also wonder if something about 21st century living is aggravating things eg air quality/ pollutant/ more virus spread eg like cold sores etc

The Gov wants to review ASD as if to suggests it’s not real in all cases. I think it’s very real but not enough is being done to understand why and why is manifests so differently.

Unless we get to grips with what is happening it will get worse with more incidents. By carefully categorising eg those with physical symptoms and those without or those with language disorder etc and then questioning all parents we surely can understand more.

There was an article in the New Scuentist about this ( l think it was in there)

They identified 3 different clusters or pathways. Certain genes had to be switched on and off.

One pathway switched on at about 11 years old.

This one was late diagnosis type or ‘masking’ type.

It wasn’t anything to do with pollutants.

GlomOfNit · 30/12/2025 00:54

OP, 100% with you! I do understand the academic rationale (to some extent) but IMO getting rid of the diagnosis of Aspergers/HF autism was a mistake. Autism is a developmental condition that means that everyone with a diagnosis may share some characteristics and challenges, but to say (as so many very articulate and highly functioning autists do) that someone who is capable of going to university independently, of having relationships and a family, of holding down a job, faces the same challenges as someone who has massive social interaction issues, someone who cannot communicate functionally with others, someone whose autistic focus means they are fixated on one specific thing to the detriment of everything else - it's absurd!

My son is autistic. I used to say 'severely autistic' but get slapped down from time to time by someone whose autism apparently doesn't prevent them from being able to articulate that everyone on the spectrum is severely affected by their autism at times. Ok, so I've moved onto the phrase 'profoundly autistic'. Sometimes I just ditch the ASD and explain (oftentimes while I'm hanging onto him in a supermarket as he lunges towards the shelf of whatever he's fixated on, or hammers my shoulders with his fists because I'm not letting him, or lies full length on the floor) that he has learning disabilities. (He has that, too.)

My son was diagnosed aged 2.5. To me and my DH (who actually works in a related area) this didn't come as any great shock as we'd been seeing things he wasn't doing, and things he was, for a year by then. Later we also sought, and got, a diagnosis of significant LDs (absurdly, he hadn't been assessed/diagnosed for that earlier and was already at a SS for significant LD by then). He may also have ADHD but this is much harder to diagnose with his lack of compliance and cooperation! He is now, thankfully, continent but was in night nappies until about 10, and day until 7. He has absolutely no sense of personal safety in terms of water, electricity, cars, etc. His fixations and obsessions make him anxious and normal life impossible. His largely non-verbal communication means that very few people can understand him, despite the wide range of communication devices and means he's able to use, so when he has to rely on strangers for his needs, he'll be so frustrated. (I can't bear to think of it.) He won't be doing GCSEs of course. His school is great and I think they should push him more as he's actually starting, at 15, to be able to read and write a tiny bit, but a lot of what he does is aimed at what we all laughably call 'independence' - because he never WILL be independent. He has OCD. He has a massively limited diet and is underweight. He can be violent, to us, teachers and to himself. He's absconded from home a few times and we lock the place down like a prison.

Please tell me, middle-aged newly-diagnosed professional with a family and a shiny new lanyard, how much in common does he have with you? And please stop telling me not to use phrases like 'highly functioning' or 'low functioning'. I know very well what I mean and I think you do, too.

OP, there IS no 'autism community' as far as I'm concerned. Parents like me and my husband have been driven out by identity-driven and highly articulate people, occasionally self-diagnosed, who tell us we're ableist parents, doing it all wrong, or that we're not allowed to say that our child might be a tad more severely affected by autism than they are. I had enough of it a long time ago.

What I would like any casual readers of this thread to take away is to think a little about the massive surge in diagnosis and resultant strain on an already broken system. To ponder how useful it actually is to people like my son, and parents like us, when someone in middle age, who has perhaps had jobs, relationships and got on fairly ok in life, to seek a diagnosis and then go on and ON about it. Because over the last few years, I've come across more bewilderment and incomprehension when I say of my son 'he's autistic'. Members of the public who don't have an autistic family member seem to think autism is something else, something different to the way my son presents. And I wonder if this is because there are so many very motivated, intelligent, highly articulate people who are loudly proclaiming their own autism.

So yes, I'd welcome a total overhaul of the way it's categorised. I understand that the more research is done, the more it's thought that there are probably multiple factors involved in autism being present, and probably multiple ways of being autistic.

EsmeSusanOgg · 30/12/2025 00:54

isargosaword · 30/12/2025 00:51

Yes I have an autistic DS, not as severe as some children but attends special school, very developmentally behind etc.

I find it very frustrating that we don’t actually know what autism actually is, let alone what factors may cause it. We can recognise it, see it manifesting but it’s literally just defined by its own symptoms.

As with ADHD, there is research showing different brain development in autistic people. Viewable on scans. More research needs to be done.

OwlBeThere · 30/12/2025 00:57

i read an article recently about autism and it’s genetic component and how studies have found 4 main gene mutations that cause autism of differing types.

I will say as a late diagnosed person, I didn’t ‘mask Until I was xxx age’ my life was a mess and chaotic and many many things happened to me because of that. Stuff that I now understand as related to my autism. Most late diagnosed adults have struggled their whole life too, just as your son does. I have 3 kids who also autistic in varying levels of support two of mine would never manage going to university, support or no support, one is non-verbal and essentially a 20 year old toddler, the ability to go to uni or live even in supported housing is a pipe dream. But he is the happiest person in the world.
What I’m saying is different levels of support don’t mean differene levels of suffering. It’s not a competition, we all need understanding and support,

ThreeSixtyTwo · 30/12/2025 00:58

I found the virus-based damage aspect interesting. And I can't help thinking - any chance Covid might be responsible for kicking some of the milder cases/previously coping people over the edge? And I mean the virus being literally biologically responsible, not the social reaction/lock downs.

I see a significant change even in my friends from groups not that badly affected by lockdowns.

HaveYouFedTheFish · 30/12/2025 01:00

EsmeSusanOgg · 30/12/2025 00:52

I think because sometimes your brain working differently to someone else's is not curable. And not is it always desirable to 'cure'. What many people want is a society that is inclusive enough for as many people as possible to lead happy, healthy lives. With things like autism, it is more about having the right support, early enough to make a positive difference. With waiting lists for initial appointments exceeding 5 years in some places that is not currently happening. The long term impact of Covid is going to take either a lot of time, or a lot of money to overcome.

This is exactly the reason to argue for distinct categorisation -

I work in an autism setting and it is impossible to create an environment which allows some individuals to be happy. Some people who have autism and the ability to post on internet forums claim that those with intellectual disabilities actually have it easier because they don't need to mask and they have support, but in fact many people with very profound autism are overwhelmed just by their own interoception that they are constantly in meltdown including attacking their peers, their assistants and themselves.

Libs09D · 30/12/2025 01:04

I agree there needs to be a change.
i think back to Aspergers and then at least the 3 levels as well.
But its not just the late diagnosed people that are causing this issue.

Some kid i know are clearly misdiagnosed.
They are able to function at at least their own age socially. They have friends, do sports are keen to meet up with others. And are coping at secondary.
None of them would you guess there was asd. If i had to line up the secondary year group they would very much be in the middle.
whereas i would say my dd is probably in 10 with most issues (though that is not reflected in support as she seems average academically with a lot of spikes up and down and depending on subjects…

My dd doesnt mask im not sure what level i would say she is.

i guess my dd is what happens if primary school dont see the clear issues and they get no 1-2-1 or other support

Now 14
Wont do sports. Wont join clubs. Couldnt cope with primary school really. (Though imo that was more the adhd). Almost excluded at 4..
Never had a 1-2-1 though probably has needed it. As needed help with friendships/peers as has ended up with no friends and unable to talk to anyone now.
Very anxious. Severe MH issues suicidal etc.
Has never been able to teamwork with peers.
Worsening sensory issues.
Gets no extra time in exams and is now stuck with the ‘try rest breaks’ load of crap.
Is unable to go to shops with a friend. Wouldnt be able to take the bus. Cant organise meet ups even if she had friends.
Im coming to think she wont be able to go to uni. Wont be able to work. (As severe PDA),

Its a weird situation as everyone treats her as if she is ND but no actual adjustments.
So we are still being expected to send her for work experience and on residential trips.
Except in y6 for eg she didnt put any sun tan lotion on despite being told and seeing other kids.
And at scout camp slept only 20mins - the rest was reading.
So i guess shes a level where it looks ok because parents are sorting everything at home. But its of the nature of a younger child. I would say about 4 years younger at this point as some y6 kids are mire independent.
There is in some ways more support needed now as much more homework than primary.
We are really not coping with the bullying and mean girl ‘friendships’

unbelievablybelievable · 30/12/2025 01:08

Autism does not automatically mean you are disabled. Autism can mean you are disabled, but not necessarily. I have 2 children with Autism. 1 is disabled, a teen that cannot function on her own. The other is not disabled and has difficulties but has already surpassed his sister in all areas of development despite being 7 years younger and having the same diagnosis. If I'm describing them I say DD is disabled - she has autism. DS has SEN - he is autistic. I have no idea why I use the difference of autism/autistic but it's probably nothing more than habit.

GlomOfNit · 30/12/2025 01:23

Sorry about my long post up there. I'm fairly impassioned about this and I ran off at the mouth a bit. I don't want to upset people, I know challenges are real across the spectrum. But ... there are very obvious differences and needs and we can't ignore that.

MushroomQueen · 30/12/2025 01:55

NoAdviceOnlyJudgement · 29/12/2025 22:40

Try having a girl that’s autistic. I’m sick of hearing that girls mask and girls fit in, my girl has never masked, never been able to. She’s been diagnosed since 2. I read a thread on here about autistic girls and positive stories and it was all from autistic women who werent diagnosed till 40/50?! and how they are married, went to university work full time etc then mums of autistic girls who are extremely intelligent, go to grammar schools, mask fit in and have loads of friends etc whilst it’s great for them it was very sad reading it as a mum with a severely Autistic girl as they seem to be rare! My daughter is unlikely to ever be able to work or live alone. Needs constant care, can’t be left alone, age 14 and can’t have a full conversation (though can say some words) How is that the same diagnosis it’s ridiculous.

Edited

Yep I agree/ my dad and sister are both autistic. My dad has a wife raised 2 kids, but masked for years and got a late diagnosis in his 40s, he calls himself an Aspey and the diagnosis helped him understand his ways. My sister on the other hand has severe autism- barely speaks more than a syllable for a word, will never live independently or have a job. Lives in a residential care home with 24/7 staff and very happy. It was blindingly obvious the difference between me and her as me aged 3 and her aged 1, she was nothing like me which continued for life (we are both late 30s now). Girls are often overlooked in the autistic world it feels like

SassyPearlEagle · 30/12/2025 01:59

I think we need to look again at lots of "autism" diagnoses and see if there are alternative explanations.

For example, PANS/PANDAS, auto-immune encephalitis (AIE), seizures that cause brain damage, lack of oxygen at birth...

These people may develop "autism" symptoms, but it's not genetic. If you include them in genetic studies, the waters are muddied and it becomes harder for scientists to pick out the "real" (genetic) autism cases.

Lots of kids with AIE (unknown at the time) used to be diagnosed with "regressive autism". Are they still included in "autism" lists now? They shouldn't be. Look at their medical history again, and reclass them as AIE. And so on, for other conditions.

Only after ruling out other conditions, can we really focus on "autism" itself. I hope that makes sense.

FashionVixen · 30/12/2025 02:23

Agree entirely, OP. Two members of my extended family have ASD diagnoses. They are at opposite ends of the diagnostic spectrum.

The widening of the parameters of ASD in DSM5, especially reducing min symptom domains from 3 to 2, led to an explosion in diagnosis, including people who have very limited challenges relative to those diagnosed under the older criteria. It’s insane that someone who is non-verbal, hyper-sensitive to multiple every day stimuli with toileting issues is given the same diagnosis as someone who has social engagement difficulties and struggles to tune out background noises. It does a disservice to everyone.

Homilypie · 30/12/2025 02:53

Whatsinanames · 29/12/2025 22:49

Yeah funny that. Funny how really - the difference between being autistic and masking and not being autistic at all seems pretty arbitrary and ignores the reality that most of all humans struggle with one thing or another.

I can’t speak for everyone obviously, but the difference for me is that I also have adhd.

I could and sometimes do pass fairly easily for a confident, outgoing person for the short times that you see me. It’s what happens to me internally during, and afterwards that is the difference.

Do most humans drink themselves into oblivion just to quiet their minds? Or self harm, or take overdoses because they’re so sure they’ve committed some social atrocity so awful that they’re going to have their kids taken away, or ruminate over what they’ve said during an evening out that they can’t sleep for days?

Or have certain stims so bad they’ve caused actual damage to their bodies?

Do you forget so many day to day necessary things that you can’t think straight? Does your mind feel like it is literally made of fucking Swiss cheese? Do you ever feel like you switch off, can you relax at all?

Do you ever wonder, even with several years of medical intervention and assessments and finally a diagnosis that makes sense that you still just bloody pretending, you are just lazy as you’ve been told all your life?

Do you feel like you should just pull your socks up like everyone says and then forget that you thought that, remember it again 10 seconds later and try to, then forget it again and experience that same cycle 100 times a day?

Does that happen to you with every single thing you need to do, ever?

Does it make you feel so insane you can’t face another night of trying to sleep but can’t even though you’re exhausted? And yet you also can’t face another day of trying because you know damn well you will fail?

Do you have tenuous relationships with people you love and adore because you cannot stop yourself misreading conversations and actions and beating yourself up for things you think you did but didn’t, yet are constantly being berated for things you did do but didn’t realise you were doing wrong?

I could go on and in and in but I’m so fucking sick of the ‘we all do this sometimes’ bullshit. Of course we all experience these slthibgs to some degree. And that’s the pertinent point here, the degree

At a certain point, where it disrupts every aspect of your life to the degree you cannot function ‘normally’ it is something else. And it is disabling. The fact I’m aware of all of this doesn’t make it better, or easier.

Can we all please grow the fuck up about this now.

LemaxObsessive · 30/12/2025 03:08

As a parent to a child with ASD I 100000% agree, OP. My DD is what used to be called high functioning and only struggles in very specific ways. However when I had to find her a new school after her last one closed, I spoke to one small school who said “We can’t refuse your child of course but I’m not sure we have the resources you might be expecting for a child with ASD” So I had to point out that no, she doesn’t have nor require an EHCP, no she doesn’t need any kind of 1-1, etc etc. it would’ve been far, far easier to have been able to simply say “it’s ok she’s high functioning” or even have been able to state ‘High functioning Autism’ on the in-year transfer form, rather than having to go into all the details of my child’s specific needs before we’d even looked round the school.
I often find people look either confused or disbelieving whenever I need to mention her Autism (obviously I only do so if required, I don’t go round broadcasting it) as it’s not immediately obvious. Or they then expect a very different child if they’ve not met her yet. It really would help to be able to say ‘Autism 1’ or ‘Autism HF’

LemaxObsessive · 30/12/2025 03:11

I just think that putting two children, one non-verbal, fully reliant on a carer 24/7 into the same category as a highly functioning, independent child who goes to mainstream school, has friends and lives a somewhat regular life; just happens to show a few traits which were just enough for the NHS to diagnose.

Catza · 30/12/2025 07:03

BridgetRandomfuck · 30/12/2025 00:06

I completely agree that there needs to be variation within the diagnoses - I was diagnosed autistic 15 years ago, and told that my diagnosis would have been Asperger’s were they still using that. I think it’s completely unhelpful to lump me in (married, holding down a job), with people with much more severe impairment who cannot communicate etc. I have social impairments, I’m not able to hold down friendships and have struggled at work, but to claim that my difficulties are the same as someone with severe autism, or the favourite phrase ‘it just means you experience my autism differently, not that I’m not as much impaired’ is just so much bullshit! Of course it has affected my life, otherwise I wouldn’t have had a diagnosis, but to claim it’s at exactly the same level as someone who is non verbal and can’t live independently does us both a disservice,

Nobody claims it's "exactly the same". Nobody
There are variations to every health condition. Someone with a seasonal virus can potter around, someone is bed bound for days. Doesn't make it necessary to come up with a special name for one of the presentations.
One person with down syndrome can have a relatively normal life, another has high support needs. Doesn't mean one of them doesn't have down syndrome.
And so on...

The problem isn't that diagnoses needs to be categorised. The problem is that we don't see a person behind the diagnosis. Each individual is still an individual with their specific needs and, actually, medical services, social services and even benefit system looks at needs, not diagnosis. That's why when you apply for PIP they ask you to describe how your condition affects you in your daily life. They don't ask you "What's your diagnosis".
Same for the Equality act. It says that reasonable adjustments are based on functional needs. Just because an employee has the same condition as manager's aunt Mable, doesn't mean they should receive the same reasonable adjustments.

If you met one person with autism (or CP, or down syndrome etc.), you met one person with autism. If my autism looks different to yours, it doesn't mean one of us doesn't have it.

Sutant0 · 30/12/2025 07:18

LemaxObsessive · 30/12/2025 03:11

I just think that putting two children, one non-verbal, fully reliant on a carer 24/7 into the same category as a highly functioning, independent child who goes to mainstream school, has friends and lives a somewhat regular life; just happens to show a few traits which were just enough for the NHS to diagnose.

You don’t get a diagnosis if you live a regular life and just show a few traits.

Autistic traits have a high threshold and need to significantly impact life.

Clutterbug2026 · 30/12/2025 07:23

There would just be too many caterogies that it wouldn’t work or there would be too few catergories and it would be reductive and meaningless.

Squirrelchops1 · 30/12/2025 07:26

I agree. I've worked with people with learning disabilities and when I encounter people also with a diagnosis of ASD who cannot talk, who will never live a life fully independently, who will always need support from a carer, I find it trying to have to make so many amendments for neuroinclusion because a person can't cope with the overhead lights in the office for example. Yes, I understand this can be really challenging but compared to someone who will never live without carer support......
Yet which people with ASD do we hear about more in the media?!!

wonreasleyy · 30/12/2025 07:27

I don’t think they should all come under the same term of ASC - my son is autistic and high functioning, as am I, and we would be classed as what used to be Asperger’s syndrome. My sister on the other hand is autistic with global development delays and cannot cook, bathe, write, read, there is a huge difference.

Sutant0 · 30/12/2025 07:28

Noras · 29/12/2025 22:22

As someone with a DS adult who seems destined for supported living or maybe living independently with PA wrap around as AIBU to think that ASD should be better defined.

i read about people who managed to mask ASD until say aged 52 and I can’t help but feel that it’s a World away from our lives as carers of DS.

He is at university with 37 hours per week PA support.

There is no masking with DS. We have just returned from holiday and pretty much all the staff knew of DS by the end eg someone said ‘oh he’s your son we were trying to think of ways to help him engage in the events’ etc

He has low self esteem and really low moods.

He is petrified of the outside World so we have to facilitate any social life be it with a PA or a drop off to a safe place and then we are on tender hook a waiting to pick up.

Social services class him as highly vulnerable - he’s like a 12 year old in some ways but an adult

I or the PA agency organise all his taxi pick ups and drop offs and all his rotas etc

I organise his activities eg clubs / events any social thing

I organise his clothing / dentist / even reminders to take meds / brush teeth etc

We run his finances / he has no interest - we discuss with him and he just nods

There is no masking - he talks to himself / he can rant in an outlandish way

it seems so wrong that it’s bunched in with all this late diagnoses stuff as it’s so so different.

im not decrying all this ‘ I masked until aged 53’ but it seems like a different thing entirely. People need to understand that otherwise my DS needs won’t get his needs met eg he struggles with public transport and will need a seat so he does not get brushed against and as it is he has a shut down and goes onto a weird sleep.

Sadly people have a level of sympathy and my concern is that it’s being eroded.

What a ridiculous misogynistic gate keeping post.

Many of those late diagnosed are women who were hideously let down by the male focused diagnosis system who have had hugely difficult lives. Masking is catastrophic.

All my children are autistic and the levels of masking varies. It does not make their autism any less valid. The one who masks the most has had the most support from services. One of my children can go in and out of being non verbal.

You can’t categorise autism

Autism has destroyed my children’s lives and mine. It doesn’t need to fit your gate keeping picture because NHS and diagnosticians around the world thankfully recognise how disabling and destructive it can be however it presents.

Sutant0 · 30/12/2025 07:32

wonreasleyy · 30/12/2025 07:27

I don’t think they should all come under the same term of ASC - my son is autistic and high functioning, as am I, and we would be classed as what used to be Asperger’s syndrome. My sister on the other hand is autistic with global development delays and cannot cook, bathe, write, read, there is a huge difference.

Global developmental delay isn’t autism.

Of course there’s a difference between somebody with both GDD and autism and somebody with just autism.

It’s impossible to categorise autism on its own.