To be fed up of the constant bashing of the UK?

[Drind]

I am currently away for Christmas with extended family and family friends in a very nice part of southern Europe.

It is lovely here, but I’m thoroughly fed up with the endless comparison to the UK. We all come from a smallish town in the midlands and if we see something nice here it is immediately ‘yes that’s lovely. Not like the shit hole we live in’. We see a palace and it’s ’you wouldn't see that in our town centre, would you?’ Well clearly fucking not because we live in a old fishing town not in the middle of London.

Then we’ll go to a nice restaurant and it’s ’no point in opening a Michelin restaurant where we live, it’s too deprived’. Or walking back to the hotel it’s ’at home you’d be watching chavs vomiting in the streets, not like these lovely clean streets’.

It is so wearing. I defend the UK and I’m told they’re joking and not to take it so seriously but it is endless.

Various mentions of the ‘lower class’ people at home too. It is driving me mad. Why are people so obsessed with doing the UK down? I know it has got its problems, but it is not that different from other European countries which also have their prosperous and struggling areas.

Not sure it matters but these are left leaning people too, not people desperate to criticise the country as a way of voicing political criticism.

I agree with you re the state of the economy, but not re the sneering. Firstly, what absolute arseholes would sneer at the citizens of an economy in trouble? Would you dream of sneering at people in the slums of India or desolate cities of America? That’s just awful hateful behavior isn’t it?

secondly I can apply your list to so many countries- maybe not exactly, we all have our unlike challenges- but I spent Xmas in Ireland with family from there, Spain, USA and Canada and I can promise you they all have serious issues related to the basic infrastructure you have described above. Things like teacher shortages and high housing costs are pretty universal tbh.

This. There’s been a very rapid decline in living standards in the UK and it’s very noticeable. Life is worse, much harder and much more expensive for lower living standards, and still on the slide, rather than there being any plan to regenerate.

Being in Switzerland is going to throw that into sharp contrast. I can see how it’s wearing to hear about it constantly when you’re just trying to enjoy your holiday, though.

Of course Switzerland is doing well, 90% of its utilities are owned by the Public Sector, with only 2% owned by foreign investors.

Whilst in the Uk about 75% of our utlities are owned by foreign investors, the profits from
these, instead of staying in the country, go abroad to fund the pension schemes of other counties.

The privatisation of North Sea Oil alone, lost us about £500bn in revenue .. Norway kept their oil, set up a wealth fund, and have a much better standard of living.

This whole problem goes back to the 80s Privatisation mantra of Thatcher. Our Public Transport is dirty and expensive, because it’s run for profit not public good.

Brexit has not helped, we are no longer a stable economy to invest in.

Also the ageing population needs more from Public Services, which of course is more expensive.

We let employers pay people less than a living wage (keeping their profits in tact), so we have to top it up from tax .. it’s a disgrace. Try to put that cost back to businesses, and they are up in arms, as they are too used to thier fat wallets.

It can’t be solved in one Parliament.. it took 40 years to get here, and will take 40 years to get us out.

No other mature economy would tolerate the systems we currently have in place … we have homelessness, whilst vast swathes of property are bought up by foreign investors, and either stand empty, or charge an extortionate rent.

….and when Farage and the rest make promises about reducing the size of the public sector, what they actually mean is more private provision (that got iIs in this mess in the first place)

The problem is that when we go on holiday we are in a good mood, have money to spend and generally choose a nice place to visit, where we live is generally by accident of birth, due to career or down to what we can afford. We like to road trip and consequently often stay in more unusual places for tourists, you see the other side of countries and as my French friends always remind me, the grass isn’t always greener. Think of having to travel 400km to access medical treatment because the specialist is in Paris or even you can’t access it because you don’t live in Paris??? Different country same problem, all the resources are in the capital they reckon. Also they complain about dirty streets, pot holes, drunks, drug users … sounds familiar!

Perhaps some of the UK-bashing is down to the elements that UK people voted for - there have been some bad policy choices.

Though I don't think people voted for weak regulation of utilities, or train companies being run as subsidy farms (I'm amazed when I go to London how empty the trains are - there must be some way to make better use of the capacity while protecting revenues).

Road pricing would be a good start. I live close to a city centre but it regularly takes 45 minutes to get in, whichever mode I use.

That’s far too logical for many to actually get , ! The only thing I disagree on is about minimum wage, it’s not much higher elsewhere even in very high tax country’s - the bigger issue is ‘costs’ -particularly utilities, transport and top of the pile is housing - particularly in southern half of England or more desirable areas in midlands and north

Sounds nice. But not all UK places are like that. Many deprived city centres for a start can only dream of that

There's a strong streak of self deprecation running through British culture. It's there in our humour, and it's there in our belief its impolite to self praise. We often compliment others by way of negative comparison with ourselves.
Add to this a general feeling of negativity at the moment as services get poorer, streets become dirtier and we all pay more for less, and its not surprising that people are acting like a picturesque tourist spot abroad is the promised land.

Ha ha, only us British can be nauseatingly sentimental about our deteriorated country with its run down streets and town centres, ugly, poorly maintained buildings, shit public services, poverty, homelessness, fly tipping and laughable public transport system.

Sure, other countries have similar problems, but ds just returned from China and S.Korea and was amazed at how well their trains run and places are clean and efficient etc. It felt safer too. He lives in London and struggles to get into the office sometimes because the tube is delayed yet again for some reason.

Nothing in this country has been maintained - look at the state of the waterways and the recent canal collapses. Places are ugly and dirty, it gets people down, this is why they complain. Of course you can't compare it to Switzerland, but it brings it home to you just how bad things are when you see other places. It's bound to hit a nerve.

40 years ago was 1985...high level unemployment, miners strike used to try to topple the government, fear of nuclear war, recent race riots, instructional racism and sexism.
Ira bombing, huge levels of football hooliganism means English teams banned from European competitions, new age travellers invade market towns and battle police.
Militant almost pulls the labour party to pieces.

Worst of all east Enders starts.

Rose tinted glasses on the idea of England have always existed. Last of the summer wine, heartbeat, the darling buds of may...all paint a Rosie picture of what never was.

But the UK's brilliant. People who cue, a sense of fair play, decent honest coppers (most of the time), politicians who try to do the right thing, decent if snowed under justice system, pubs that serve 7 types of cider on draft, 6real ales and don't bother to list the largest, beautiful countryside, footpaths that give you the right to cross it, snooker, chip shops, a non League football pyramid.

Well its not thats the whole point
Yea there are many deprived areas in the UK just like in most countries, but it's not most of the UK.

Yes rose coloured glasses indeed!

I’ve just finished a project in China. 3 site directors were “disappeared” in a year and their families have no idea where they are. All “arrested for fraud”

I am thankful every day I don’t live in a shit hole like that.

Cymru am byth!

We all have a poor intuitive sense of compound growth - so slightly lower growth each year turns into a visible difference between countries over (say) 25 years.

We do however notice crises and collapses, so that is sometimes what it takes to provoke change.

Also - positive mindset isn't enough to generate change!

If it were, I would be a size 8 and run a sub-20 minute 5k!

Grimsby? I also wondered about Switzerland and Southern Europe, but the OP explained she was being vague...

One of my colleagues from mainland Europe wss moaning about the UK. I got fed up of hearing it and told her she didn't have to stay. As a child of immigrants I felt I could say this. A white native to UK might have hesitated.

I agree to an extent.
We’ve have a lot to be very proud of and we have done beautiful cities and countryside.
I live in a main city that has its issues and I get fed up of people bashing it because there is so much to be proud of.
My issue is the state of the economy. High cost of living and taxes, giving everything to lazy people on benefits and nothing to workers.

I will add i grew up in a small town in South Wales- considered a fairly affluent town and voted one of the best places to live in Wales and whilst there are lots of lovely people and independent shops, excellent restaurants- there is a noticeable decline in the town and mainly attributed to the younger generation - groups of teenagers destroying flower displays, antisocial behaviour - groups of teens shouting abuse at the elderly, alot of burglaries, decline in customer service in shops - rudeness, swearing, people dropping litter, no pride in the country, apathy, the younger generation seem to have given up..but who can blame them. Very hard to build any wealth in the UK, expensive to rent, very expensive to buy, low wages, high tax, high tuition fees......Kids are angry. Doesn't justify their behaviour but I can understand their frustration. Even if you do what you're supposed to, get good grades, go to uni, work hard, their is no guaranteed path of success anymore and I think there were alot more opportunities years ago- more grad schemes, lower tuition fees etc.

I live in Switzerland. My health insurance costs about 400 a month, so 4800 a year, and my excess is 2600, plus 10% of all costs above that. Employer pays for accident insurance.
So if I have a bad year, I’m in for over CHF 7,000.
My partner pays more than me, so between us we pay CHF 1,100 per month on heath insurance, after tax.
It’s a great system, but comes at a cost.

I think this is one thing that people don’t get - very low taxation gives much higher costs in other ways - now many ex pats don’t notice this because they are covered by work in these territories but if you aren’t in that position of high value health covered employment then it isa real biggie - I’m in Stockholm for new year , a place I know well - reverse is true here, very high taxation but a lot covered off- it was same when we lived in Copenhagen - no council tax, no NI as such, cheap childcare, utilities were less, far more good quality social housing - uk in my opinion has the worse of all worlds- middling taxation and not that low if you add in council tax, NI etc, but not that much covered off either if average earners - the noticeable thing in Scandinavia is how many couples with children both work , far less of this let’s do 15 hours and get top ups - the expectation is unless physically unable, you work and use childcare. Therefore far less couples needing social support and far more decent social housing to keep rents at a level in line with earnings , meaning far more single parents working plenty of hours too - now not everyone will agree with this but the fact is the young people in the main seem mature, not feral and well behaved when in public too , so doesn’t seem to have done them any harm - I don’t think there is any way that is perfect and I can see the daily mail/telegraph having an apoplexy that older people had to pay 44% tax above certain ‘not high’ levels- and not using childcare or in some cases social housing - but again it’s higher state pensions to balance up - people here just seem to accept that’s what gives them a functioning g society , good services etc - I’m open minded to both ways of doing things - but as I say at the moment I think in the UK we kind of have the worst of all aspects and yes it’s official - a coffee in Espresso house in Stockholm is now cheaper than in Bath ( where I live)

@Drind nope, I’m in Stockholm at moment for new year - a coffee in their nicest chain ( complete with sofas and plants and very good coffee) is cheaper than Bath ( where I live) or even in Trowbridge up the road and not so upmarket . Extremely good Tapas for 2 last night in lovely area complete with blue fin tuna and huge garlic prawns £62 for 2 with a large glass of wine each - I would pay more local in UK. Very little here in Sweden now is more than UK -

I agree with your post entirely. I do think it’s a really strange phenomenon that so many people in the uk aren’t in paid employment for very long stretches of their lives. Employment to be both less and more important; something higher quality that you leave behind when you clock off.

The best way, the most positive way forward, is to accept that things really could be better in the UK - and start making the changes we need to make.

They will make a difference, even if it takes five to ten years. Ten years swing by surprisingly quickly!