Am I being elitist?

[hardhatson]

I work in digital/tech and quite often, it’s touted as a get rich quick scheme online/to people outside the industry. Ie “do this coding bootcamp, earn stupid amounts of money in a cushy remote job”.

Almost like it’s a cheat code to life, whereby there’s ample amounts of people who don’t have a relevant background trying to make it work as a 2nd career after said bootcamps.

For me, I have a relevant degree (bachelors and masters in mathematics & machine learning) and have worked in industry for years and from the start of my career. Had a normal career where I worked up to senior/lead level, so what’s happening in the entry level space doesn’t directly impact my job prospects. It’s more the wider “watered down” reputation of my profession, and then having to deal with those individuals from a hiring/management perspective.

Not sure if I’m being unreasonable or elitist perhaps. What I find from the bootcamp candidates is a level of entitlement where they have a lack of standards/poor understanding of the work, lack of breadth/depth, low work ethic, heavy reliance on AI. When I started out, everyone had a willingness to learn and troubleshoot etc and trust was earned as opposed to full autonomy off the bat.

Don't worry, AI will take all the jobs soon. Need to get on board with it.

YANBU, you are being realistic.

There’s a lot to be said for on the job learning.

Well it sounds like they are still able to get a job in your organisation - so I guess your company must recognise these boot camp type qualifications - so on that basis, yes YABU.

Also - In some cases I bet its easier to have someone who is 25-30 and retrained to do this via a boot camp working in an entry level position as opposed to some entitled graduate who never had a "propper job" before.

Don’t worry there soon won’t be any jobs in your sector, AI will take over it.

We only hire people with degrees in things like statistics or economics. Learning to code is not the difficult part. People need to understand the math to do quality work.

Exactly!

Well not quite, some have been as a secondment so it’s just a case of ending their contract and sending them back to their substantive post.

The point you’re missing, is that it’s the boot camp lot who are entitled. At least degree holders have something to back that up!

Sure, and as an AI specialist I would pivot and continue to be a well paid employed professional who harnesses AI. Try again sweetie.

It’s privileged to have the opportunity to go to university to do a degree and masters.

I think it’s good there are other ways of entering different sectors other than the post graduate route. The job soon weeds out those who are and are not capable.

One of my siblings (the "lazy one"- I say that because it's true- intelligent but wanted to do minimum effort all his life) did a one year training in coding in 2005. Until 2020 he earned a very good salary. Then nothing. No work. He's now working as a "helper" for disabled/elderly people with the council for pittance pay. He used to earn what my other brother who is a MD earned so this did change his life.

This is interesting. Are you suggesting degrees like software engineering / computer science are not seen as valuable by the industry?

I don’t disagree with you, but why is your company hiring them?

Ha ha yes. Some people think that AI is strategic and has a mind if it's own. I'm not tech savvy at all but I do understand the difference between being able to program the program rather than just executing. It's like comparing a financial analyst with someone who works on payroll.

Must say I admire people like yourself OP. I could have seen myself in different roles if I had chosen that path ; law firm, politics, management, HR, hospital (dr/nurse) etc. But never ever working in engineering/tech. It takes a special brain to start with and then hard work ofcourse. But even if I did work hard I wouldn't be able to.

I work in tech.

I don’t think it’s a cheat code, but it can be a great industry to enter with rough and ready skills - I don’t have a degree bar the company-sponsored masters I’m working on now, but have pursued promotions and ‘levelled up’ quickly in ways that aren’t broadly possible in other industries.

I think both can be true - people enter through these bootcamps thinking they’ll get all the highlights of a glamorous tech life without having to work hard, AND some roles/routes are much more fast tracked than in any other industry. Many, many of my colleagues have also taken unconventional routes into tech, and (in the fast-moving scale up I work for, at least) we have very few people - even at senior levels - with your amount of experience and qualifications.

It’s not really elitist, is it, unless you are refusing to hire or promote anyone who hasn’t taken the same route as you?

tech has always gone from complex to self service. My dad worked for ibm in the 70s and appeared to just plug and unplug machines, and watch them. This was thought of as technical as noone even know what a computer was.

I work in a certain tech field where you can go on bookcamps, too (I have decades of experience). I was fed up of the lack of diversity in my area, and created a scheme we use to bring in anyone who has the smallest amount of experience. They start off in low grade roles and we train them in the basics. Mostly we have had mature career changers and it has been excellent. I love that I can help give people a leg up into something they want to do. Often they've come from difficult professions eg teaching or retail.

I guess it’s a case of they don’t know what they don’t know.

Hmmm I'm not sure.

It sounds like you're just annoyed they've found a quicker way in than you.

Time will tell whether it works out for them, but fair play to them for trying.

What I’m seeing is that people who graduated from bootcamps were hired when there were not enough candidates but now the economy is bad they are the first to be let go unfortunately

I hire through various routes. Those who come from (purpose-built) boot camps are essentially cannon fodder. We use them for volume-based make or break roles. The actual coding skills that people have learned in the boot camp are a given. What will decide whether they succeed in their first year are the transferable skills - communication, organisation etc. where people will either fly or fail. We don’t have the capacity to train those skills in for these roles.

So … I guess the upshot if that is that our graduates, and particularly our experienced hires, receive a lot more investment. Anyone who makes it through their first couple of years post boot camp will have earned their stripes and get that same level of investment.

And I think that is elitism by its very nature. We are assuming the grads and experienced hires already are elite, but making the boot camp group prove it (because only 10-20% of them make it).

None of this is unique to IT / tech

It depends on the industry. I don’t do software development. I do research that is facilitated by coding.

My husband develops software. His hires come from computer science programs.

Not elitist but maybe "protectionist" but people are like this.