To think manners were always a 'thing'

[Hidingupatree]

I remember being a little girl and noticing that my mother never said 'please' or 'thank you' to anyone in the family. I remember resenting being told to 'pass me the butter' or 'go and get my purse' etc and as I approached the end of primary school, noticed other children's parents saying please and thank you to them and thinking it was so weird.

So then I decided to enforce 'please' and 'thank you' with my sister who is 6 years my junior. I remember being on this big mission to make sure she had lovely manners and I actually became obsessed with saying please and thank you to people.

Then when I had kids, my mum told me I was being bossy when I made my own children say please and thank you and that it was OTT. Everyone comments on what lovely manners my children have so I don't care if my mum thought i was being OTT.

Anyway, recently I was talking to mum and she said that when she was a child, nobody used manners (born in the 50s). I said what about at home? What if someone gave you something? She said that nobody ever handed her anything (!) and so there was never any need to say please or thank you. She said 'all this please and thank you stuff' is a modern thing and nobody taught their children to say it in her day.

Am I right in thinking that this is just rubbish and maybe her mum didn't bother with manners but the rest of her generation did?

If I hadn't said "please" and "thank you" I'd probably have a size 4 and a half court shoe sticking out of my forehead right now.

Manners have been important to every generation, and still are. And especially in the home, as that is where children learn.

Quite the opposite in my experience. People these days seem far more rude and impatient than when I was a child.

Ive noticed this too, and it gets politicised into misogyny here, as in 'why should you thank your husband for doing the dishes' when actually my husband and I often thank eachother for doing lots of things. Its another way of saying 'I saw that you did that job so now I don't have to do it' and it goes both ways. You're not alone!

This made me laugh!

Your mum is the outlier here - it was drummed into us, both at home and at school. Working class family, school echoed the roughness of the area.

3% think my mum is right, interesting. Do tell!

No, she was just brought up by rude ignorant parents.

My mum and dad were born in the 40s and 50s. Manners were a huge thing to both and me and my brother were raised to have manners.

Your mum is wrong. I expect this was a way of communicating peculiar to her own family. If a household's way of communicating dispenses with please and thank you, and everyone is comfortable with that, in theory it's not a problem, but the issue lies in this way of speaking becoming habitual outside the home, because others will almost certainly find it impolite.

My mother was born in the 1930s. She managed to grow up with pretty good manners and saying please and thank you. Ditto my father. Both were insistent that us children did too.

Your mum maybe grew up in a household populated by basically ignorant and rude people but to generalise that that was the way everyone was and that reasonable manners are a recent thing is just nonsense.

My SIL also did what you did, red hot on P's and Q's with my DH when he was little (there's plenty of video evidence). But unfortunately ran out of energy and did no instill even basic etiquette in her children. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Waited for school to do that.

My nana always set store by good manners and told us off if we used thanks rather than thank you. Table manners were important too.

See, to me personally the examples you give still seem contrived and quite odd. However I consider myself generally polite and would always thank DH for example when he brings me a cup of coffee in the morning, or say please if I ask him to pass me something.

Yes and in her family it was ok but i remember being an older child and realising that I was actually most affronted by the lack of niceties. My mum would also speak to me in a way that I only really realised was 'rude' when I was in my thirties. For example, comments such as calling me 'porky' and mimicking my voice etc. I would never do that to my children. I dont have a rude side and a polite side but mum seems to and she thinks its normal to 'tease' family members but she knows not to do that in public.

Your mum sounds mad to be honest. Of course manners have always been a thing! More so when she was growing up than now, in fact.

My mum was born in the 1920s and I was born in the 1950s, and I don’t think I can ever remember knowing anyone when I was growing up who did not say please or thank you automatically. Almost everyone had good manners and it was something that teachers reinforced at all three schools I went to.

also, table manners were considered very important and were very strictly enforced at home and at my infant and junior schools.

Yes my mum was quoted strong on using a knife and fork properly strangely.

I do find it a little bit silly when a child asks in a very polite tone “Grandma, may I have an apple?” and the nearest adult immediately barks “Say please!” Seems to be missing the point somewhat. ‘Please’ and ‘thank you’ are a shorthand for good manners, they’re not actually politeness itself.

I dont know if you're exaggerating for effect or your parent would physically abuse you. Did she/he think manners were important enough to justify child abuse?

Rubbish as both my Mum and Nanna were big on manners when my brother and I were growing up in the 80’s. We always had to phone people who gave us gifts to thank them, and if we ever didn’t say please or thank you, they’d say ‘what do you say?’ I did the same with my kids. I hate poor manners.

OK...do you remember jokes. Are you ok hun?

to be honest the moment she said nobody ever handed her anything throughout her entire childhood you should have known she was talking absolute bollocks!

I remember reading enid blyton/chalet school/cs lewis type books when I was a child and there were references in there to 'minding your p's and q's' etc. (which though an old fashioned saying to a child of the 90s was obvious from context what was meant) so it was definitely common and expected to children in the 1930s-1950s.

The only possible point she might have is that, (again from extensive reading), there probably used to be slightly different ways of expressing the same sentiments, particularly when writing or in more formal situations, where we would now just say 'please/thanks' for (e.g. "much obliged" "pass on my regards" "may I have" etc.) but of course people also still said please and thank you as well.

I had an interesting chat with my DM about that. I remember a time I was a teenager and was really rude at home and no one said anything. I told my 13yo DS about that and how someone should have taught me it was wrong to speak like that. And that I take it very seriously that my DC speak in a respectful way at all times. I mentioned that to my DM and she said "we were hippies, we thought we were being relaxed, not stuffy...". So, different people, different times... (it was the 80s, but my parents grew up in the hippie times in my country).